Bob the middle aged loner
- 2006-05-05
Dear Mr Wu
How are you?
> They just wanted to have some foreign faces to glorigy their schools
> appearance, and then drew more paying students in return. Did you
> notice their oversized classes? In my school, a class was usually 68
> to 72 students, some of the Senior 4 classes were over a hundred.
This is a very valid point. I, for one, find it amusing that a Western face can attract so many students to enrol. By doing this the schools are exhibiting signs that show that EFL, even in China, is market driven. Sometimes when eduation of any type becomes market driven, it is too the detriment of the learning process.
> Lots of those 'natives' were illiterate. They were sometimes really
> arrogant. They demanded alot, but they couldn't offer more.
So you are saying that you get what you pay for? I agree. You should be willing to pay more for better quality teachers.
If EFL, including China, is market driven and it is true that you get what you pay for, then isnt it inevitable that China will NOT attract the best teachers because most Chinese are "too poor" to pay a lot for English classes, which in turn means that the schools cannot pay a salary that can attract such teachers? From what you wrote, I would conclude that Chinese schools cannot compete on the international market to attract the best teachers. Am I right?
So, if your Chinese schools are playing the capitalist game of making money, why are they surprised that you are being beaten to recruit the best teachers by schools in other countries who can offer better terms and conditions and higher salaries?
> them enough got drunk most of the evenings, because they could find
> way to diverse themselves.
Did they break the law? I think not. May I remind you that teh employer is only the boss of the teachers during work time. And if you want foreigners, you have to accept foreigner's culture, just as they have to accept Chinese culture.
> In order to pacify the classes and make
> students happy, they usually played DVD alot. Local teacher did know
> it was not good enough, but they usually could express themselves but
> kept quiet. Some of the student being taught this way do remembered
> some keywords, but most of them failed in making sentences.
Did you provide a curriculum for the teachers to follow?
Did you provide any books for the foreign teachers to follow?
Were the students inactive in class bacause of the usual disrespect for foreign teachers?
Please do not think this is a hostile message, but we are often told by Chinese that things are not the same here as at home, so make allowances for that. Well that certainly includes your education system, which I believe is designed for control rather than enlightenment, am I right? So cant you make allowances for the foreign teachers who have come here to help you, even if they are not the best? If you pay for a BMW you will get a good car, if you pay much less the car wont be nearly as good. Same with teachers.
"Sloppy teachers" for "sloppily managed schools", sounds fair doesnt it? After all, read the other comments on this discussion board. Most schools in China, are badly organised, have little or no teacher support or training, are late paying teachers, often do not pay teacher the right amount, rarely provide curriculum or books etc.
"What you give is what you get" The Jam 1980
kc
- 2006-04-07
Hi mr wu,
I am very sad to read about what you wrote and if i must say it is becoming an attitude here.How long will such a thing continue to exist in china?I am a foreign teacher from south africa teaching here in china,i teaches my students grammar,vocabulary,reading and pronunciation which is very important in my opinion and the students always happy to listen to my class because am a bit humorous but to my suprised my fellow chinese english teachers are working against me all cuz am not from america or canada.I have to let you i have an uncle that has been teaching in america university for the past 2oyears.If chinese teachers do not stop playing politics and allowing themselves to be fool by someone,this problem will continue like that for long and many whiteys will just come here to fool everybody even carpenters,painters,and so on are here making money without any degree to show for it.
Things can only get better.
kc
Rheno747
- 2006-03-08
I've found myself criticizing teachers here in Thailand a few times. Each time I've caught myself and said 'now wait a minute...'. This for two reasons. First, the teachers I've met here have been nothing but adequate if not great, overall. Nary a one have I met would I ask to ## back to his/her home country. Sure, some whiteys here have bought into the 'bored students = BAD teacher' baloney, but, again, nearly every one has been good in the classroom.
When I've made my criticisms in the past, I've reminded myself that it's really the system here, not the teachers. It's a system that is concerned with money making and keeping students happy above all else, unfortunately. Nope, this system is not concerned about educating young people at all.
Indeed, the only ones really being educated are the farang who've figured out the dark secrets of why we're really standing in front of classrooms in places like Thailand.
The Arrogant One
- 2006-03-07
Dear Mr. Wu,
I'll have you know I had to read your letter over more than a few times to finally get the gist of what you were trying to say. Although your first 3 paragraphs were dead-on, I find I have a few qualms with the second half of your post.
Granted there will always be the charlatans in any EFL group conscripted by the PRC from overseas, but you must not make your plea sound as if that is what you can expect as a general rule. Moreover, it's awfully "big" of you to waive the necessity of a native teacher's being efficient in grammar, but know that this is a most important qualification on this side of the Pacific! Frankly, I cannot imagine anyone's being an employable "English teacher" with only a cursory knowledge of English grammar. Moreover, this "know-how" to which you refer must consist of grammar skills in addition to anything else you might feel is mandatory.
Finally, to guarantee the success of the children of those "starving" Chinese people to whom you allude, the government of the PRC must find some way to enforce HONESTY on the parts of both the agencies and the schools responsible for the conscription and subsequent care of those foreign teachers so necessary for the success of the Chinese EFL program.
Perhaps, IF the current tragedy could be eradicated, you would begin to enjoy a collaboration with a more expert and positive variety of instructor from the West. Otherwise, that brand of sloppy scumbag described in your communiqu will surely continue to infiltrate and deter the English learning program in China.
With all due respect, Mr. Wu, FIND a way to change the local system before bitching about the inefficiency of its imports. It'll take only some decent salaries and some desperately needed VERACITY to get the ball rolling in the PRC. Until that time, sir, it would be most appreciated if you could keep your criticisms to yourself!
I am,
THE ARROGANT ONE
bob
- 2006-03-06
look at what you write. it's hard to make head or tail of it. what a joke - you have no understanding of english grammar yourself. maybe you should get some native speakers in and stop pretending you are one.
Hi, Rheno, the Arrogant One and anyone is concerning:
You are not! Problems were that most school managements didn't care too much about how a foreign teacher supposed to be chosen. They just wanted to have some foreign faces to glorigy their schools appearance, and then drew more paying students in return. Did you notice their oversized classes? In my school, a class was usually 68 to 72 students, some of the Senior 4 classes were over a hundred. Most localteachers had to teach lot more classes in order to earn enough for living. So they even didn't have time to correct students' homework. The school usually leave the advertising and hiring to one of the staff, who said to be 'good' in that language, but chances were that staff was not only not proficient enough in understanding the language, but also poor in expressing their schools' requirements. Those staffs taking the responsibility of hiring foreign teachers just wanted to have less class quota, and might also get some extra money.
Sometimes schools did pay a recruiter for it, but some of those might not be very responsible. Their main purpose was the commission. Due to the low pay in the China market, agents couldn't get enough qualified and not mentioning certified teachers; instead, they get some 'native' language speakers.
Lots of those 'natives' were illiterate. They were sometimes really arrogant. They demanded alot, but they couldn't offer more. Some of them enough got drunk most of the evenings, because they could find way to diverse themselves. In order to pacify the classes and make students happy, they usually played DVD alot. Local teacher did know it was not good enough, but they usually could express themselves but kept quiet. Some of the student being taught this way do remembered some keywords, but most of them failed in making sentences. Not mentioning about explaining something in English. Those foreign teachers do speak the language, but they didn't know most of the details why. I had been asked by one of those said to have an MA, "What is a preposition?", after I explained, then he asked me again, "Is the word 'Where' one of the prepositions?"
I would be unfair if I insisted all the foreign teacher to be an expert in grammar, but to be an English teacher, the least one should be equipped with enough English Know How. I believe you all know how poor most of the Chinese people still are. They starve themselves in order to support their children for a better education. We the 'friendly' foreign teachers should at least do our best part for their childrens' success in return.