Caring
- 2014-12-24
The point may be that Chinese educational institutions and students abuse the testing to inflate scores. Our higher education representatives have been debating that and whether the foreign students at our unis live up to their previous proficiency test results. Moreover, the American college entry tests are under a scrutiny too. New Oriental, however, seems to be a step ahead of us all.
Somebody
- 2014-12-22
What I have observed in the testing and private education companies in China has been, quite frankly, appalling.
I'm not a bit fan of testing, but care to elaborate?
Beth
- 2014-12-22
You are strawmanning.
There is an internationally accepted and recognized scale for English language ability. Where you fall on this scale can be tested. The result you get aligns your English ability against the international standard. Employers and universities use this in order to ascertain the fluency level of a candidate.
You can continue your strawman posts. It doesn't change the fact that there is an ability scale, you can test for position on that scale and it is internationally recognised by education establishments the world over.
Like so many on here, you fail to look at the ESL world as a whole and focus simply on China. IELTS and CESOL are international exams, thus meaning a candidate from China will be assessed on the same scale as a student from anywhere else in the world, ergo international standard of language ability.
martin hainan
- 2014-12-22
Language acquisition, a cognitive process, does not vary in response to any test, regardless of its design, just as an MRI doesn't alter brain function.
Cognitive scientists and academicians, unlike English language testing corporations, do not print brochures or pay teachers to convince students and parents to "read up about the CEFR" or IELTS or any other test 'product'. As I indicated above, in the academic community there is ongoing debate about the accuracy of ALL language testing, corporate and academic.
There is no debate about the fact that education does directly influence language acquisition. My 'reading up' is always an effort to improve my efforts in that venue. Every payment that I have received in China has come from non-profit academic institutions. I find them problematic enough. What I have observed in the testing and private education companies in China has been, quite frankly, appalling.
Beth
- 2014-12-22
And if you bothered to read up about the CEFR you would see that as it progresses it is based not only on practical awareness of English, but also on interaction and communication.
The exams are designed for this very purpose, to test all round fluency and natural ease with language in a multitude of different scenarios and range of topics.
You have no idea what goes in to these exams despite being given the information time and again.
You're trolling again.
martin hainan
- 2014-12-21
Of course it's true.You have no idea what you're talking about.
Koponen and Riggenbach 2000 - There are at least three constructs of fluency, each dependent on indeterminate contexts that include the listener, topics, and situations. All measurement is subjective. Language is always an interaction.
Gustave Flaubert - There is no truth. There is only perception.
Beth
- 2014-12-21
And yet you still fail to clarify your meaning. Which suggests either you can't or you are simply trolling.
Beth
- 2014-12-21
Of course it's true.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Somebody
- 2014-12-21
Fortunately for you, this is not true.
Meaning what?
Nothing but vague innuendo.
martin hainan
- 2014-12-21
This meaning that no matter where you are from, your fluency can be measured
Fortunately for you, this is not true.
Beth
- 2014-12-21
The only thing standardized is the international scale to which English ability is graded. This meaning that no matter where you are from, your fluency can be measured. Employers then use this to determine a candidates suitability for a position. Much the same as they would use other qualifications to assess ability in other areas.
This is a very simple concept. One you refuse to acknowledge because it would mean agreeing with me.
Once again showing your complete ignorance about a subject, it isn't possible to fail an IELTS. IELTS is a graded exam, you sit a paper that gets progressively harder. Your paper is then marked and your ability is measured as a score from 2-9. A 2 being equivalent to A1 on the CEFR, a C1 being 7-8. So unless your student wrote absolutely nothing, it is impossible that they failed an IELTS! They could fail a CESOL, as that is an exam designed to test a certain ability, an FCE requires an aggregate score of 70% across reading, writing, listening and speaking to be awarded as a pass. But targeted exams like CESOL are given more weight by employers and universities for that very reason.
Exams like IELTS and CESOL are not scams. The fact you lack the ability to guide a student through an exam does not mean the exam is faulty. IELTS and CESOL test more than just oral fluency, so it doesn't surprise me that one of your conversation class students failed to get a decent score on an IELTS. For a good score on IELTS, candidates have to be able to read graphs and then write academically about said results. They have to read long texts of different styles and interpret the information. Spoken fluency is not enough.
I do not advocate using the same books; different classes work better with different books. There are many things to consider when choosing a course book for a class. I've never said anything about using specific course books, just another fallacy of yours.