DoS
- 2004-06-14
The school makes the biggest difference to your experiences of course, and I *certainly* agree with your comment when you say China should not be the first choice for 'newbie' travellers! I have travelled to many many places, and I always say that China is more different than anywhere else!
Keep on slogging! ;-)
Tony
- 2004-06-13
Hi Dos,
you are right, I suppose I did concentrate on the negatives a little too much, but I will say that a lot of the teachers I have spoken to in the two and half years I have been here, have been quite naieve in a lot of ways and have hated their experience here.
I have travelled and worked in many countries (not as a teacher though) and have found that there are good and bad points everywhere you go, although I have not been to Russia.
I truly believe that if you have never been away from your home country before China may not be the best first choice.
On the positive side I have had and am sure I will continue to have a good time here - It does help that I am married to a Chinese person.
In nearly all cases, the people I have met away from the school on a personal basis have been very open and friendly, and I have made many good friends here.
DoS
- 2004-06-13
Tony,
Whilst I don't deny there is truth in your post, I do think you are concentrating very much on the negative side. I also don't think that the Chinese are as bad as you make them out to be. They are no worse than most people in the west, though possibly less well educated.
Yes, private schools can be bad, but I have worked for two now, in the two years I have been here, and there were okay. This one is much better than my last one, partly because I was far better prepared than I was last time. Hey, you have to look on it as a learning experience.
Some advice for newbies: You *need* to clarify matters upfront. You need to ensure you will be working at a school allowed to employ foreigners and that you will be given a Z class visa. You must make it clear that you expect to have that visa, and the school must not hold onto that, or your passport. You have to emphasise how important getting paid on time is to a foreigner. (In China it isn't a really big deal if you get paid a week late, and they often don't understand that). You need to specify that you have the right to say no to a class unless they give you 24 hours notice. You need to read the contract carefully and add these points to it. You MUST make it clear that if they **ck you around you will walk! There are lots of places out there looking for teachers. Finding another post is not hard.
Okay, assuming you do that, then you can relax to a degree. It is all in your attitude, and remember, you are in their country. I assume you travelled to experience other cultures, so here it is. Coming here with your eyes open should be a given.
"If you don't like it go to Russia." - Homer J Simpson.
boots43
- 2004-06-13
Hi Tony. For me, it is a return to South Korea although I taught in Seoul before. For my wife, this is a first time out of China. I am much more worried for her sake than mine because the assumption will be for most people seeing her that she is Korean and they might expect her to "behave" Korean(whatever exactly that means). I have heard that there is a lot of hassling of white men with Korean women - before I met my wife, I dated two Korean women(not at the same time!)and never once ran into that.
Despite what some people may think, I generally like Koreans and Korea. My wife is into this for the adventure and for a chance to work outside China and we are both in it for the kids and, yes, the money.
Working in Korea is harder than in china, but then again you are paid much better- even taking the cost of living into mind. One can save more in Korea in a month than one can MAKE in China.
But the Chinese people-oh, I will miss them!
Tony
- 2004-06-13
Hi Boots,
just in response to your reply, I should say that after a lot of negativety in my message about private schools in China, I have had a good time here, but expect to have a better and more rewarding time in my next post at the Normal University.
In my time at this school I have seen 3 other foreign teachers come and go, breaking their contracts in dispute.
I think the most important thing is that you are a wordly person, with a strong backbone. Interestingly enough my wife is starting to really see her own people through my eyes. We had known each other for a few years before I came here - we met in Hong Kong some years ago.
So you are off to South Korea - I hope it is a good experience for you. I spent time there on my way back from living in France - I was lucky as I was with local Korean's - they can be more xenophobic than the Chinese, you may find that you and your wife will always be "outsiders". Although I was not teaching there I did visit some schools - its does seem to me that there are horror stories there as well. Many of the teachers I spoke to considered their time there as a prison sentence, with one young guy being assaulted - I also here there is sexual harrasment with the girls as well.
The one thing that we all seem to do is generalise - that is a mistake in itself - right?
boots43
- 2004-06-12
Tony, I,too am married to a Chinese woman and am teaching in China. the experience has been a very good one at three of the five schools I have worked at, a good one at another school ,and I have had only one bad experience.
My wife and I have both gotten jobs at the same school in South Korea and will be heading there next. For a 50 year-old white guy and his 23 year old Chinese wife to both get jobs in South Korea at the same school - while not the parting of the Red Sea - is a monor miracle.
I read with interest the message from Paul Hodge and can understand his frustrations.
I have been teaching in China for two years now and have found it a bitter sweet experience.
I have been in a "Private" Middle School and my eyes have been forced wide open at what really happens here.
Before I start though I would like to relate a cartoon that appeared in the China Daily Newspaper about a year ago (its and English newspaper published like all papers by the Central Gov).
It depicted a foreign teacher as a drunken derilict, a loser who could find no job in his/her own country so had to come to China to find a job. Interestingly enough a fellow foreign teacher wrote to the paper in disgust about it, but nothing was published. So in a way that is how most foreign teachers are depicted here.
I am lucky, for the new school year, I am going to a top University and will not just be teaching Enlsig, but Business and or Computer Science, and here they do take us seriusly and hold us in respect.
But if you are thinking of comming to China to teach, think long and hard if you really think you are going to make a difference - BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT. Private schools here are a sham - you are just here as an advertising tool. The students in most cases at private schools are here because they cannot make it at the Govt. schools. They do not take Oral English seriusly at all. I have confiscated knives of senior students.
Cheating in exams is accpeted if not condoned to make the school look good in its advertising. In fact they outrightly lie in their advertising.
They had me advertised as the Director of English at the University of Australia, for one I am not Australian, I have never been to a Uni in Australia and there is no such thing as the University of Australia. The other teacher here was advertised as a famous American, well, he was American, but famous?.......
Believe me at a private school, you are less than nothing here unless they want something from you.
With all the neagtivety above, I will say that there have been some great times here, with some great students, just be aware and do not come here with your eyes closed as I have seen many do and really hate there experience here. China is certainly a great country to visit, with many amazing things to see, but you will not get a lot of oppotunity to see anything while you are working.
If you can stay away from private schools and universities, also stay away from a consultant company called "Yakup International" you will be miseld and lied to as they do to the schools, they promise you the world and really give notjhing, especially after they have their commission.
For me life here is a little different as I am married to a Chinese person, so life is not always as difficult as I have seen it for other teachers here.
If you don't come with your eyes closed you may have a wonderful time here, much better than South Korea. Be strong without being angry, and do not let them walk over you.