TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent Incheon - 2004-08-05
Re: THE OFTTIMES STEEP WAGE OF TRUST IN THE ESL WORLD

> I've been reading, with great interest, the numerous complaints
> printed in the teachers forum pages of the various online job
> services, and I am hardly amazed at the number of suckers there are
> among us. Even I -- certainly no spring chicken, and having been
> around the proverbial block more than a few times -- fell for that
> dream job defecation just last summer! Only, I'll make a small wager
> that MY loss went a bit further than that of the average dupe: (A)
> round-trip fares for two (USA-China), local taxi fares due to the
> remoteness of the school's locale, food, clothing, etc. ... all
> amounting to roughly $3,000;
> (B) loss of a comfortable ESL position... loss of the apartment where
> we had resided for 9 years ... loss of my car, TV, and PC, etc., etc.
> And, what's more, we decided to abandon our new dream locale after
> only 9 DAYS following our arrival! Alas, all of that money and our
> prized possessions had gone to the bloody dogs ... all for that
> bloody dream job in faraway China!

> Of course, since last summer, I've been kicking myself in my
> oversized derrir ... so much so that my big toe is practically worn
> to the stump! But, when I'm more composed (which isn't all that
> often), I continue my ongoing investigation into WHY I, a seasoned
> veteran of the international ESL scene, could ever have been taken in
> by such promises of professional satisfaction. Is it my optimistic
> outlook on life? ... my high regard for and trust in my fellow man?
> ... my recognized penchant for adventure? ... or my ego which,
> unfortunately, we all have to support from time to time? Of course,
> such deeply objective inquiries, although very briefly considered,
> are hardly seriously entertained once the contract has been signed
> and the plane tickets are red hot and just begging to be used! No, at
> this time, negativism is hardly within the realm of reality. That
> dream job is awaiting us. We dream of it at night. We talk about it
> incessantly during the waking hours. We can even taste it! My God!
> How reason abandons us ... that is, until we are hit squarely in the
> head with a huge baseball bat! By then, it's usually too late to
> prevent at least a monetary loss, something which is especially
> tragic for ESL teachers, who are dangerously close to the bottom of
> the world's educational pay scales. Happily, not every ESL instructor
> working abroad will suffer the sorry circumstances I have described.
> Fortunately, the majority of us are fairing well, and enjoy
> acceptable relations with veracious and caring employers. It's just
> those nefarious hucksters who must gradually be weeded out of the
> system. Is it also that, in the face of today's circumstances, we
> cannot afford to place faith in ANYBODY's word -- that is, unless we
> have first conducted a thorough investigation of an employer's
> history, reputation, and objectives before ever signing away the next
> one or two years of our lives? In the final analysis, my thinking
> favors the creation of up-and-up, independent international
> investigatory committees, sponsored by both local governments and
> public and private ESL learning centers, to report and resolve any
> infractions of ethical business and/or educational practices. If,
> indeed, public and private ESL schools in the USA can be subjected to
> the constant upkeep of certain national standards of operation, why
> can't an INTERNATIONAL standard -- especially in developing countries
> -- be likewise established? I'm talking about a unified effort in
> each foreign country in which teachers from the west are regularly
> employed. After all, the students who come to the west to study are
> protected by numerous laws and professional codes of conduct. WHY
> can't this principal equally apply those of us who travel eastward to
> contribute to the betterment of English language learning?

> Any ideas, folks? Thanks for your attention.

Well Mr. I agree with one thing you wrote. You're outside the borders of the country you're critisizing. That's a good beginning.

Incheon

#2 Parent Mike B - 2004-07-26
Re: THE OFTTIMES STEEP WAGE OF TRUST IN THE ESL WORLD

You have to admit that this cuts both ways, how many schools have been burnt by recruiters who send over untrained, unexperienced bar flys whose sole interest in "English teaching" is to get drunk and get laid by girls/boys from other countries?

Or by teachers who tell outright lies and invent references or even degrees.

I am sorry for your financial losses, but assuming you are a decent teacher and have your head together as implied in your post I am sure that China has more than a few opportunities for you, especially seeing as you are on the ground there and can properly investigate and be investigated by prospective employers.

#3 Parent xi - 2004-07-25
Re: THE OFTTIMES STEEP WAGE OF TRUST IN THE ESL WORLD

> I've been reading, with great interest, the numerous complaints
> printed in the teachers forum pages of the various online job
> services, and I am hardly amazed at the number of suckers there are
> among us. Even I -- certainly no spring chicken, and having been
> around the proverbial block more than a few times -- fell for that
> dream job defecation just last summer! Only, I'll make a small wager
> that MY loss went a bit further than that of the average dupe: (A)
> round-trip fares for two (USA-China), local taxi fares due to the
> remoteness of the school's locale, food, clothing, etc. ... all
> amounting to roughly $3,000;
> (B) loss of a comfortable ESL position... loss of the apartment where
> we had resided for 9 years ... loss of my car, TV, and PC, etc., etc.
> And, what's more, we decided to abandon our new dream locale after
> only 9 DAYS following our arrival! Alas, all of that money and our
> prized possessions had gone to the bloody dogs ... all for that
> bloody dream job in faraway China!

> Of course, since last summer, I've been kicking myself in my
> oversized derrir ... so much so that my big toe is practically worn
> to the stump! But, when I'm more composed (which isn't all that
> often), I continue my ongoing investigation into WHY I, a seasoned
> veteran of the international ESL scene, could ever have been taken in
> by such promises of professional satisfaction. Is it my optimistic
> outlook on life? ... my high regard for and trust in my fellow man?
> ... my recognized penchant for adventure? ... or my ego which,
> unfortunately, we all have to support from time to time? Of course,
> such deeply objective inquiries, although very briefly considered,
> are hardly seriously entertained once the contract has been signed
> and the plane tickets are red hot and just begging to be used! No, at
> this time, negativism is hardly within the realm of reality. That
> dream job is awaiting us. We dream of it at night. We talk about it
> incessantly during the waking hours. We can even taste it! My God!
> How reason abandons us ... that is, until we are hit squarely in the
> head with a huge baseball bat! By then, it's usually too late to
> prevent at least a monetary loss, something which is especially
> tragic for ESL teachers, who are dangerously close to the bottom of
> the world's educational pay scales. Happily, not every ESL instructor
> working abroad will suffer the sorry circumstances I have described.
> Fortunately, the majority of us are fairing well, and enjoy
> acceptable relations with veracious and caring employers. It's just
> those nefarious hucksters who must gradually be weeded out of the
> system. Is it also that, in the face of today's circumstances, we
> cannot afford to place faith in ANYBODY's word -- that is, unless we
> have first conducted a thorough investigation of an employer's
> history, reputation, and objectives before ever signing away the next
> one or two years of our lives? In the final analysis, my thinking
> favors the creation of up-and-up, independent international
> investigatory committees, sponsored by both local governments and
> public and private ESL learning centers, to report and resolve any
> infractions of ethical business and/or educational practices. If,
> indeed, public and private ESL schools in the USA can be subjected to
> the constant upkeep of certain national standards of operation, why
> can't an INTERNATIONAL standard -- especially in developing countries
> -- be likewise established? I'm talking about a unified effort in
> each foreign country in which teachers from the west are regularly
> employed. After all, the students who come to the west to study are
> protected by numerous laws and professional codes of conduct. WHY
> can't this principal equally apply those of us who travel eastward to
> contribute to the betterment of English language learning?

> Any ideas, folks? Thanks for your attention.

hi there. Did you speak to other English teachers at this school, before commiting to the position from hell you described? Of course I can only assume that you did speak to an English teacher there, but he was part of the conspiracy to attract you. Next time you tell your sad story about teaching in China, please start by saying: My fault, My fault, My fault. Never too late to learn. As for your comment of "developing countries" Development start with us, not countries. A peasant, always a peasant.

Ellis E. Seamone - 2004-07-25
THE OFTTIMES STEEP WAGE OF TRUST IN THE ESL WORLD

I've been reading, with great interest, the numerous complaints printed in the teachers forum pages of the various online job services, and I am hardly amazed at the number of suckers there are among us. Even I -- certainly no spring chicken, and having been around the proverbial block more than a few times -- fell for that dream job defecation just last summer! Only, I'll make a small wager that MY loss went a bit further than that of the average dupe: (A) round-trip fares for two (USA-China), local taxi fares due to the remoteness of the school's locale, food, clothing, etc. ... all amounting to roughly $3,000;
(B) loss of a comfortable ESL position... loss of the apartment where we had resided for 9 years ... loss of my car, TV, and PC, etc., etc. And, what's more, we decided to abandon our new dream locale after only 9 DAYS following our arrival! Alas, all of that money and our prized possessions had gone to the bloody dogs ... all for that bloody dream job in faraway China!

Of course, since last summer, I've been kicking myself in my oversized derrir ... so much so that my big toe is practically worn to the stump! But, when I'm more composed (which isn't all that often), I continue my ongoing investigation into WHY I, a seasoned veteran of the international ESL scene, could ever have been taken in by such promises of professional satisfaction. Is it my optimistic outlook on life? ... my high regard for and trust in my fellow man? ... my recognized penchant for adventure? ... or my ego which, unfortunately, we all have to support from time to time? Of course, such deeply objective inquiries, although very briefly considered, are hardly seriously entertained once the contract has been signed and the plane tickets are red hot and just begging to be used! No, at this time, negativism is hardly within the realm of reality. That dream job is awaiting us. We dream of it at night. We talk about it incessantly during the waking hours. We can even taste it! My God! How reason abandons us ... that is, until we are hit squarely in the head with a huge baseball bat! By then, it's usually too late to prevent at least a monetary loss, something which is especially tragic for ESL teachers, who are dangerously close to the bottom of the world's educational pay scales. Happily, not every ESL instructor working abroad will suffer the sorry circumstances I have described. Fortunately, the majority of us are fairing well, and enjoy acceptable relations with veracious and caring employers. It's just those nefarious hucksters who must gradually be weeded out of the system. Is it also that, in the face of today's circumstances, we cannot afford to place faith in ANYBODY's word -- that is, unless we have first conducted a thorough investigation of an employer's history, reputation, and objectives before ever signing away the next one or two years of our lives? In the final analysis, my thinking favors the creation of up-and-up, independent international investigatory committees, sponsored by both local governments and public and private ESL learning centers, to report and resolve any infractions of ethical business and/or educational practices. If, indeed, public and private ESL schools in the USA can be subjected to the constant upkeep of certain national standards of operation, why can't an INTERNATIONAL standard -- especially in developing countries -- be likewise established? I'm talking about a unified effort in each foreign country in which teachers from the west are regularly employed. After all, the students who come to the west to study are protected by numerous laws and professional codes of conduct. WHY can't this principal equally apply those of us who travel eastward to contribute to the betterment of English language learning?

Any ideas, folks? Thanks for your attention.

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