Robert Newman
- 2004-10-13
> Although it is not the purpose of our talks here, to talk about
> individuals, but I have to admit I don't think Robert is an evil
> recruiter!
> And if he were, he would not be the point of my message, anyway!
> I expressed a general belief. Everyone knows it is a generalization,
> and it is not meant to be or to look true in all cases.
> These days, by the virtue of the corporate lawyers writing the law
> for the rest of us - every word we use, can be used against us, as
> though it were authored under oath in the court of law!! Such is the
> ridiculous life in the modern Anglo-Saxon countries of ours, these
> days.
> In the old days, people who wanted to control your life or your
> business, would say "See my knife?" These days they say
> "See my lawyer?"
> The knife has change, but people have not!
> I THINK ROBERT IS A GOOD GUY, LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO ADVERTISE HIS
> GOOD SERVICE! "SO DO ALL OF US!"
> I guarantee it, that even though our Robert may was not the fully
> confident guy, and so, took a true generalization - personally, he
> does not appear to be our standard evil recruiter! Why?
> 1- Because an evil recruiter is normally not an ex-pat. This is
> assuming that it is his real name he is using here. Most ex-pat
> recruiters have been teachers themselves, and do know the pain of
> 'having been cheated' in the Orient. Maybe he has been a teacher,
> too.
> 2- Also Robert has had enough time on his hand to check and see what
> teachers think and say about their jobs. An evil recruiter does not
> care to know what teachers think!
> 3- Also the evil recruiters do not have much time to spend on the net
> - they are too busy making the big buck.
> All in all, I say to Robert: I do not think that all teachers are
> good or all the recruiters are evil. I apologize for the statement
> and the generalization, just because you are a human like me, and I
> do follow the Golden Rule. So, I will take care of changing my
> statement, if I can change the message.
> Also, if you are as good as you say and do work for teachers, you
> should be happy and help teachers unite!
> Next time you write a message, you can leave your phone number, so
> that teachers in need of a good recruiter can call you! I say it
> sincerely!
> Care for all of you good teachers and ex-teachers!
> Alan
If you had ever talked to some of the teachers I have recruited, you might learn I had advocated a teacher association (union leaders in Thailand tend to get shot) several years ago. Yes, I have been a teacher, 12 years of both language and mainline bilingual schools. The only ones to have ever ripped me off was a language school, run by a Canadian, and a business English teaching company, run by a Brit. Non of the school I recruit for rip off the teachers, if they did, I wouldn't recruit for them.
Telephone number 662-446-3228 or my mobile 669-150-5600
Robert (real name)
Alan
- 2004-10-12
Although it is not the purpose of our talks here, to talk about individuals, but I have to admit I don't think Robert is an evil recruiter!
And if he were, he would not be the point of my message, anyway!
I expressed a general belief. Everyone knows it is a generalization, and it is not meant to be or to look true in all cases.
These days, by the virtue of the corporate lawyers writing the law for the rest of us - every word we use, can be used against us, as though it were authored under oath in the court of law!! Such is the ridiculous life in the modern Anglo-Saxon countries of ours, these days.
In the old days, people who wanted to control your life or your business, would say "See my knife?" These days they say "See my lawyer?"
The knife has change, but people have not!
I THINK ROBERT IS A GOOD GUY, LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO ADVERTISE HIS GOOD SERVICE! "SO DO ALL OF US!"
I guarantee it, that even though our Robert may was not the fully confident guy, and so, took a true generalization - personally, he does not appear to be our standard evil recruiter! Why?
1- Because an evil recruiter is normally not an ex-pat. This is assuming that it is his real name he is using here. Most ex-pat recruiters have been teachers themselves, and do know the pain of 'having been cheated' in the Orient. Maybe he has been a teacher, too.
2- Also Robert has had enough time on his hand to check and see what teachers think and say about their jobs. An evil recruiter does not care to know what teachers think!
3- Also the evil recruiters do not have much time to spend on the net - they are too busy making the big buck.
All in all, I say to Robert: I do not think that all teachers are good or all the recruiters are evil. I apologize for the statement and the generalization, just because you are a human like me, and I do follow the Golden Rule. So, I will take care of changing my statement, if I can change the message.
Also, if you are as good as you say and do work for teachers, you should be happy and help teachers unite!
Next time you write a message, you can leave your phone number, so that teachers in need of a good recruiter can call you! I say it sincerely!
Care for all of you good teachers and ex-teachers!
Alan
Robert Newman
- 2004-10-10
> Was Alan addressing you specifically? It doesn't appear that he was.
> You appear terribly defensive. What is there in your own business
> practices that you feel a little guilty about?
> And you say you may get a lawyer and SUE? I must conclude that you
> also are having a little trouble with what we used to call in the
> therapy business "reality testing."
Although I was not mentioned by name, the generalisation was damning enough.
No, I do not have a single iota of guilt regarding my business practices.
Having never been in the therapy business, from either side, I have no idea what you mean in regard to "reality testing". However, I assure you I am real and fully cognisant of reality.
ESL_IN_ASIA
- 2004-10-10
> disgruntle teachers,
> put an end to the nightmare (self-induce)
> you're going through. go back home quickly.
> Why are you afraid?
> Jilin
Thats because someone has to be around to help re-educate students taught by goons like you. First, last time I checked, you start a sentence with a capital letter. Second, thats disgruntled and self-induced with an ed at the end. Therefore, it should go something like this: Disgruntled teachers, put an end to the self-induced nightmare youre going through. Go back home quickly.
Of course you could make this a nonessential element and write it: Disgruntled teachers, put an end to the nightmare, self-induced, that youre going through.
Sadly, yet another point why someone has to stay and undo what all the 20 something hicks with blond hair and a two-year correspondence degree have done. It really says something about where the ESL market is going the more I read this incoherent crap.
well have a nice day. (notice lack of proper capitalization)
Laowai
- 2004-10-10
> disgruntle teachers,
> put an end to the nightmare (self-induce)
> you're going through. go back home quickly.
> Why are you afraid?
> Jilin
Disgruntle[d] teachers.
put an end to the nightmare (self-induce[d])
you're going through, etc., etc.
Jilin
- 2004-10-10
disgruntle teachers,
put an end to the nightmare (self-induce)
you're going through. go back home quickly.
Why are you afraid?
Jilin
Laowai
- 2004-10-10
> Alan
> As a recruiter based in Thailand I take offense at what you have said
> about me and the way I do business.
> When I recruit teachers for a school I try to get the maximum salary
> and the best conditions I can for the teacher, that way the teacher
> is more likely to complete the contract.
> Money is not the only thing I care about, and have never tried to get
> anywhere near $1,000 per head.
> As for my "greed", I am more concerned with getting the
> best school and teacher together than with making money. I have even
> recruited teachers without charge to the school before now, and I
> never take money from a teacher.
> Where the @#$% do you get off libeling me and my business practices?
> Until you get ALL the facts about ALL the recruiters don't say
> another word, or I may have a few words with a very good lawyer.
> Yes, there are some recruiters out there who do rip off the teachers,
> but by no means all of them. Try reading the following article
> written on www.ajarn.com a Thai based teacher website.
> http://www.ajarn.com/Banter/teacheragencies.htm It might just
> enlighten you enough to retract your carte blanche statement about
> agents.
Was Alan addressing you specifically? It doesn't appear that he was.
You appear terribly defensive. What is there in your own business practices that you feel a little guilty about?
And you say you may get a lawyer and SUE? I must conclude that you also are having a little trouble with what we used to call in the therapy business "reality testing."
The Arrogant One
- 2004-10-10
> Yeh, right Mr. Altruism. While you are saving the world, I have a
> better idea. Lets all get together and have a world-wide sit down
> teachers strike. Can you imagine? The schools would be in a panic.
> Even a small union organized over the Web would do the trick.
> UNIONIZE!!!
===================================================
Dear Union Brethren,
Unfurl those banners, ESL instructors! Let's polish our boots! Let's practice our slogans:
"Shame on management!" ... "Give us a raise!" ..."Give us some new textbooks!" "Give us western-style toilets!" ... "Give us our pre-negotiated air fares!" ... "Give us some RESPECT, already!" ("Duhhhh....I get no respect from NOBODY!" ... [sorry, Rodney])
AHA! I can see it now: a ONE-MONTH worldwide ESL teachers' strike! Scads of Chinese and Korean agents biting the dust ... committing mass suicide for lack of a sure future ... others smoking and coffee-ing themselves to death ... while still others fleeing their countries before the bill-collectors catch up with them, while, in so doing, leaving mounds of concubines and illicit children thereof, not to mention their Mazarati and Mercedes ego-strokers attained with the blood of poor, unsuspecting dupes like us! YEAH ... RIGHT ON! That WOULD be something worth seeing! Ergo, let me enter MY name as the FIRST supporter of your strike, my brother!
Unionize NOW!
The Arrogant One
ESL_IN_ASIA
- 2004-10-10
Yeh, right Mr. Altruism. While you are saving the world, I have a better idea. Lets all get together and have a world-wide sit down teachers strike. Can you imagine? The schools would be in a panic. Even a small union organized over the Web would do the trick.
UNIONIZE!!!
Robert Newman
- 2004-10-09
Alan
As a recruiter based in Thailand I take offense at what you have said about me and the way I do business.
When I recruit teachers for a school I try to get the maximum salary and the best conditions I can for the teacher, that way the teacher is more likely to complete the contract.
Money is not the only thing I care about, and have never tried to get anywhere near $1,000 per head.
As for my "greed", I am more concerned with getting the best school and teacher together than with making money. I have even recruited teachers without charge to the school before now, and I never take money from a teacher.
Where the @#$% do you get off libeling me and my business practices? Until you get ALL the facts about ALL the recruiters don't say another word, or I may have a few words with a very good lawyer.
Yes, there are some recruiters out there who do rip off the teachers, but by no means all of them. Try reading the following article written on www.ajarn.com a Thai based teacher website. http://www.ajarn.com/Banter/teacheragencies.htm
It might just enlighten you enough to retract your carte blanche statement about agents.
> Join Global Brainstorming & Improve the ESL Job Conditions!
> Join A Global Brainstorming on How to change the ESL job market 'from
> a Recruiter Centered Market to Teachers' Market'.
> Dear friends about the Globe!
> I am Alan; an ESL teacher from Canada, with a global understanding
> and a view of life based on unity of humanity.
> I am writing to you, in regards to the growing hard times for many
> teachers, that started about a couple of years ago.
> As many of us have seen since year 2002, the recruitment of ESL
> teachers, in many countries, at least in Korea, Taiwan, china, and
> Thailand that I know about, has fallen into hands of a few
> money-worshiping recruiters.
> This problem really became obvious, since the time some major ESL
> Employment web sites made their services to those who wanted to find
> teachers, a paid service.
> As the normal business practice in the 3rd world goes, these
> recruiters do anything they possibly can, to win the hearts of their
> clients - the schools - and win the very tight competition over other
> recruiters who also want the $1,000 or so for each "hunted
> head".
> The recruiters do offer the employers to find them teachers who will
> settle for less salaries, less: holidays / benefits / ...
> Now, over 95% of the positions in Taiwan, China, and Korea, and over
> 40% in Thailand, are filled by the recruiters; and there is no end to
> the greed, nor to the unnecessary sufferings caused for the teachers
> in these and in other countries around the globe.
> The problem has developed to a point where many teachers have no more
> place to go, as the new and inexperienced job seekers, although they
> do not get fair conditions, agree with just about any condition they
> get, the conditions that today are worst or a lot worst than those
> one would get 5 or 7 years ago.
> As for myself, I can always return home, and do other, more lucrative
> business at home. But that's not the point - I and many teachers love
> teaching and love cultural experiences - and non of us, the new or
> the experienced want to suffer at work. For my part this pursuit will
> go on, no matter what business I end up in.
> As a human, I will try to do what I can to bring about a change, and
> allow teachers more freedom of choice and better conditions; and I
> trust you, like many of us, have already had the desire for change in
> your heart!
> I cannot do this alone. In this matter we really need help of good
> humans like you! Please join and help brainstorm on this matter, and
> find out how we can better your work life, and the lives of hundreds
> of thousands of teachers worldwide!
> We need a number of eager teachers on this matter, and later we can
> have a global E.meeting or email chat together!
> Please let me know how you see it happening -
> 'The change from recruiter-centered to the teacher-centered job
> market'.
> With great appreciation and hope for better future of thousands of
> teachers including ourself, I look forwards to hearing from each kind
> spirit, soon!
> Love,
> Alan
> *** Tell every decent person you know to join. Even the mere joining
> of the minds of a thousand teachers will start the change,
> automatically!***