[A TEFL or CELTA cert from a 4-week intensive course doesn't make you a real teacher, you will always need a degree, plus additional proper and recognized teacher training that qualifies you for work at public schools as well, plus a proper ethical personality who cares about the students and will not support any indecent practices like manipulating grades in homework and exams.

Well I do not have a CELTA cert, but I do have a TEFL, not from some mill in Thailand, but from my uni,,,,I won't name which one, for good reasons as well known on here. I do think it was useless though, didn't prepare me for China at all, and I had to learn on the fly, the experience taught me more than that 4 week "course" ever did. At least it was free and covered by the uni though, so it did save me money, I will say that for it. I suppose what keeps coming up on here is, what constitutes being qualified for ESL in China, as it is China that seems to be the recurring topic? BA only, or BA and MA, or BA and CELTA, or the PGCE from the UK or being a state licensed teacher as in the case of the USA?

I have met many qualified teachers who couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag, let alone a class of chinese students. And as for ethical personalities....very hard to find many ethical western FT's, esp. so in China.

In corporate ESL, it is normaly about how much money you can make only - on the part of the business owners as well as their teachers or deechers.

Agreed. is a deecher someone with or WITHOUT a degree though?

Happy new year,
SMGS