Thank you folks, for your responses to my two postings. Let me counter, if I may, the slightly condescending tones.

Why would you feel a need to do that?

I am not a newbie here in China. I have been working continuously in China for well over six years, which is far longer than many others of you who are here and claiming to be seasoned experts on the international scene.

That's great, but why do you feel a need to tel us this? Ah yes because you feel like you are being talked down to. I must admit, for someone who has been in China for 6 years you don't seem to know much about how things work. Your mistake is a rookie one, and if you don't want people to see you as a "newbie" best not to act like one. Just a thought.

Moreover, since 1978, I have lived and worked at different times in eight different countries, these being the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Jordan, Kenya, Tanzania, India and latterly China. Additionally I have visited and done business and/or recruitment in another twenty or so countries worldwide and some of them I have visited frequently.

You see this as saying something good about yourself. I see it the opposite. If you have this much experience, it makes it even worse that you'd make such a whopping huge mistake, and you really have no excuse.

So, folks, though you were not to know all this, you do now, so with respect, please dont talk down to me like Im some kind of fresh-faced backpacker or summer holiday itinerant. I have much more international employment experience than most, if not all of you.

Ah, I was right, you felt talked down to. You come on asking for advice, and then you lash out when you get it, very strange. Personally I doubt your assertion of being here 6 years. I have been here 10 myself, and would never make such a blunder. It's hard to believe anyone who has been here for 6 would be so culturally unaware, and make such large mistakes. You are not doing yourself any favors by telling us how long you have been in China, not at all. You might want to try being a bit more humble in your responses, and in your attitude, if you do you might actually learn something, and not make such mistakes. As it is such an attitude would explain why, after 6 years, you don't seem to know more than your typical newbie. If that clear truth bothers you, perhaps you should not come to this forum and vent your experiences.

However, I asked for comments and I got them, so let me respond.

Now you try to act logical and reasonable after ringing the angry and illogical bell? Sorry, can't have it both ways.

The countries of the Arabian Gulf, in which I worked for many years, are without exception, oligarchies that are completely autocratic with not even a hint of either true democracy or the kind of democracy claimed by the communist regimes. The Rulers of these countries answer to nobody, and in each of them there are those foreigners who are scared of what these people can do when in reality the Rulers will only move on those who attack them or who are seen as an ideological threat. Each Country has its framework of law and those foreigners who are aggrieved in any way that can be proved, can, and many do, take the issues to litigation and if their case is solid, they usually win.

Good for them, but what is your point? You have not been aggrieved in any way.

This also applies here in China but if you wish to make an official issue of your grievance, then be sure you have a case that is backed up by hard facts that the employer, if challenged in Court, cannot evade the existence of.

OK, but what is your grievance, and what does this have to do with your discussion on students being spied on? Seems to me like you are trying to steer the topic away from what turned out to be, in everyone else's eyes, your clear lack of understanding of Chinese culture.

In the Countries where I have worked, there are also many employers who take advantage of their foreign employees but, like Chinese employers, they only do so because they know that in most cases those employees will not stand and fight. Most of them also know that those employees who will stand and fight are the ones not to be messed with. Sure, if you take these people to Court, you may later lose your job, but if your legal argument is well-founded on facts and not emotions and tantrums, then they lose not only the case but their face too.

I'm trying to figure out just why you are talking about this. You are no victim, and you have not been victimized. You came on with a story about students being spied on, and now you are trying to make yourself sound more knowledgeable and educated on the cultures of the countries you have lived in, including China. The truth is though your application of said knowledge, if you have any, is sorely lacking. preaching to your students how they should do this or that in defiance of the school is not very wise, and is not something a 6 year vet does unless they are very unwise and not well educated on the country they live in.

Your job has to assume second place when you put the gloves on, for nobody will generally do that unless they have tried every other way and failed. Once that situation has been reached, you may as well look for another job anyway, without waiting to be fired, for the next mistake you make may see your employer wreak his revenge. I recently forced my employer to jump around to get my passport and visa returned to me when some fat-cat jerk in the upper levels of management was playing God with foreign teachers contract renewal processing simply because he was apparently in a dispute with someone else. He had held everything up for three months and was set to go on doing so until I threatened to take them into Court.

Great insight, I have to wonder where it was when you sat telling your students to do this, or not do that in defiance of the schools mandate.

I have no doubt that when my contract comes up for renewal next year, I will not qualify but then who in his right mind would trust such an employer with his passport again? I wont, so the decision as to whether I spend a further year with this university is no longer in the hands of the university, for it has already been made.

Yes it has, and you made it when you foolishly decided to express your own personal opinions during your professional work hours. hence, you ruined what might be a fine job simply because you just "had" to let everyone know how you were superior in your views and morals, as is your country, and how they and their ways are inferior. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Bravo.

As long as there are people like you, who plainly advocate what amounts to complacency there will be employers, be they in China or elsewhere, who will take unfair advantage of you.

Ah I see, you are trying to rationalize your actions, and explain them in a way that makes you a hero, and us that have condemned your actions as complacent, do nothing layabouts, who simply don't care. What are you, Norma Rae?

In this Country the courts can be quite hot on points of law no matter which party contravenes them, but you must be able to prove your grievance beyond any doubt.

What in the world are you talking about? What grievance? No one has done anything to you. Please stop bringing up things you sound good at talking about to distract us from your nonsense actions and words.

The issue of surveillance via telephones is not one I can prove and so I cannot do anything about it.

Surveillance of who, you or the students? Your message had nothing to do with you, except for the part where you tried to change the way things are done in China be advocating the students do things the way you tell them, and not the way the school tells them. Sorry, but I thought your job was that of an English teacher, not a social or political reformer.

I asked for comments in this forum more out of curiosity than intent.

Yes but you did ask for comments. Saying that you asked them only out of curiosity does not, as you hope, change the validity of those comments. Your words make little sense anyhow, as your intent was to get peoples feedback, which you are now complaining about because most people are not agreeing with you.

I said what I said in this forum; and to the two classes I have so far met since I learned of the matter; in the clear knowledge that my remarks would probably reach those responsible. But I doubt they will do anything about it.

You doubt wrong, they will do something about it, and what they will do is not rehire you. You also have no idea what they may or may not do in the mean time. Why risk it anyhow? Ah yes you are the rebel, the man who will challenge the corrupt system and change things. You will be a hero. I think not.

Thanks anyway for your comments.

Don't thank us Dave, as your thanks, along with everything else said in this email, is an attempt on your part to impose upon us your superiority, just as you did with your students and your school. Hmm, I think I see a pattern here. Bye bye ;)