If you are someone who would basically let things ride, you would fail sooner or later. For, if you stand for everything, you will not stand for anything in the end. It's the same in business, you will find out soon....

Like I already said, a lot of people taking advantage of a silly argument to try and sound morally superior to others. It really is very tiresome.

Someone said the subject was about students being spied on, but what is this based upon? A message posted by someone who said he suspected this "might" be happening, but has no proof. What then, this is a hypothetical argument? If not, and it's based upon something real, which is the only reason to discuss it and attack others with such zeal, then people are quite off subject, as there is no actual spying on students going on. That is just paranoia I think, it's much more likely the school wishes to corner the market and sell minutes to the students, and make a buck. Since the discussion itself is about that post, and someone merely changed to topic to try and make it acceptable to discuss since the subject itself has no basis in reality, then yes, everyone is quite off topic.

I also see a lot of people flailing around aimlessly in anger, and lashing out at fellow posters who they have praised in the past. It has the feel of a witch hunt almost, and seems rather unfocused and generally like a mob reaction. I look at certain long time posters who are overly sensitive as well as seeming control freaks, who can't stand being disagreed with, and attack others based upon the flimsiest of reasons. I see a lot of misinterpretation, and a lot of soap box preaching where people are trying to sound superior to others, proving that they are infinitely inferior in regards to their self image and self esteem. I see a lot of people purposely or subconsciously subverting the words of others simply so they can attack and harangue them. Basically I see a real cluster, well you know.

Turnoi poster this thread is based upon a post by someone who knows nothing about spying going on. His words are mere conjecture. It has no been taking and turned into a fairy discussion on might have beens, what if's, and maybe's. If that's the topic, fine, but it seems imprudent and just plain stupid to knock around heads and be so aggressive over something so ridicules. I se a lot of unfocused rage, anger, aggression, insecurity, and inferiority complexes abound, as well as rampant paranoia.

I have been pretty neutral on this board, and I think people like Turnoi and silver boy do a lot of good. I also think they let their emotions run amock, and do so because they are long time posters, and it's allowed. This I don't like. I also don't like the petty bickering, over an incident that is actually a non incident, and discussion based upon the conjecture of someone who to be honest has little common sense.

As for just sitting back and taking it, taking what? I argued quite clearly that I make a clear distinction between myself, and others. My students are not me, and "if" they were having their phone conversations monitored by the school, no, I would not object, as they are not monitoring mine. Too many people are loving the chance to jump on this and say how superior they are morally because they would risk their jobs and do something. Uh huh, and yes, how many have, and do? Good jobs are scarce everywhere, and while I don't advocate doing nothing, I do advocate choosing your battles, and using common sense.

As for me not standing up for my rights, or saying other teachers should no, or do not have rights, I never said any such things. THis is the words of someone clearly looking to either pick a fight, or just try and make someone else look bad. Indeed a school can hire or fire you, and you have the right to speak up or not. Where did I say the teacher has no rights? Ah yes, I used the word "right" and then someone else added their own meaning. It's the same the world over, you have rights, until you don't, meaning until you step over the line, try to harm the company you are working for, breach your contract, etc, etc. If you are being treated badly, then you have every right to do so. However getting up in arms about cell phones, (we are not talking about spying on students, because it has not happened in this instance, that is just conjecture by the OP) is hardly the actions of someone choosing their battles wisely.

I am well aware how badly teachers are treated here, I've been in China a long time, and I can tell you that they are often treated like crap. That said, I think you need to be conscious of where you are, what the society is like, and very, very careful about where you choose to work. I am no apologist for Chinese schools, not at all, and I by and large dislike all private schools. That said, if you agree to work at one, know what you are getting into. Pick your battles, and if you are being treated well, great, if not, make a ruckus. If your students are being asked to purchase cell phones, mind your own business. If you have evidence they are being spied on, do something or do nothing, it's up to you. While I might care, and not be happy if something like that were happening, I certainly would not assume it was without proof, simply because "this is China."

Indeed e need to stick together, but these words are used a lot by the most prominent members on this board, who try their damndest to take a schalacking to any and everyone who disagrees with them. I don't find that conducive to solidarity. In truth such self righteous people standing a soap box might be the biggest part of the problem.