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View Thread · Previous · Next Return to Index › Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer).
Sanguine - 2010-11-07

First let me just say I feel for your predicament, and I hope you get better. That said I won't kid glove things in my response, because you've said some things that I really must address.

You know what Sanguine, it is more complicated than you make it out to be. I really liked the students, simple as that, that is why I resigned the contract, get it?

This was the same excuse Darren Russel used for why he stayed at his school, he could not bear to leave the students, a foolish mistake on his part. Not speaking ill of the dead, but he should have left pronto, and perhaps you should have as well.


Being from the country side, for the most part, they were more simple than students from larger cities, but seemed interested in learning from a foreigner none the less. Plus, I had a lot of friends through English corner and around the city, so leaving that behind was not as simple as you make it out to be. Plus, I liked my colleagues and befriended a number of them. So try to see both sides, man/mam. Plus their were rumors that the FL might be promoted to tutor, so I signed the contract thinking their could be a new FL and a new start for me and my relations with the UNI.

It sounds like you liked the school, it also sounds like you now have a lot more that is good to say than bad to say. As I said before, it sounds like most of what you said was trumped up because you were angry about how you were treated. Rightly so, you have a right to be angry, but TA's with a bad personality hardly make for an out of the norm school. Not sure it was as bad as you say, maybe it was only bad to your personal sensibilities, but in the grand scheme of things not so. If it was so bad in you're eyes, at the time, before your cancer, why did you stay? The above things you talked about seem to cancel out the badness, and make it not so bad.


I figured things would improve, like a lot of people in my situation might assume, and they did, somewhat.

Then what exactly is the complaint, other than what happened at the end, which is despicable, but not what you spent a whole post going on about, in which you went on and on in length, saying how truly bad it was. Now it sounds like you didn't feel that way. Sounds rather typical to me now that you have defended your decision to stay.

Though the FL stayed an extra semester and did not leave until my last semester, the next FL was much better, so I was actually kind of right. Though the uncaring nature of the leaders did not totally hit me until the very end. I hope you understand matters more.

I do indeed, your main problem that you spent many paragraphs talking about left the school, so you did not even have that to complain about anymore, unless you mean she left after you left, which would not make sense given your wording. Since your wording says she left while you were still there, as you said you were kind of right, meaning things did get better for you, then there go most of your complaints.


Also, I resent being called a push over.

Sorry to hear that.

NO. I am not.

OK, you are not.


You do not even know me,

No, but I know your actions, and what you did, and did not do in response to things you specifically told all of us. Hence, while you are right, I don't know you personally, I know you in this regard, as you explained numerous scenarios to us, in which you got nothing done even though you said you complained a great deal.

I stand up for myself when my friends are whispering to me to shut up, that is how far I will go.

Such things are of little consequence. People the world over complain about their jobs and rail away, but in the end don't actually "do" anything. I am not concerned with what you said, as much as I am with what you "did" in response to this horrible treatment you said you got. Anybody can talk, it's quite easy really, doing is harder, and words don't generally count as doing, as so many on this board have said in the past.

I defended my gf against two guys and really hurt both of them after one of them had tried to strike her.

Glad to hear it, too many Chinese men have too little regard for women.

Not a pushover. You do not know how many times I called for my things to be repaired, how many times I had to watch these "repairmen" fumble with what probably were simple things in reality, and how long I had to wait until they were free to come and attempt repair (again).

No offense but, why would you even stick around for this? If anyone on here as ever spent time in 100 plus degree temperatures in a big concrete box, day in and day out, without AC, maybe they will know that it is far from pleasant. You ticked off tons of complaints though. Now you are trying to make it sound like you are the mans man, and would not let anything bother you and make you quit, at least not such trivial things. The problem is that you spoke of them in a way that made it clear you did not find them trivial, though now you act as if they were, and such little things would not make a big tough guy like you quit. However it is that very attitude that is the problem, while you think it's a virtue. I'll explain more in a bit.

My constant suggestions to get outside workers were ignored, as they continued to use the same idiots from within. And my many questions to the FL prove that I am not a push over.

Again, this is not the issue, though from my experience a push over is anyone who can be continually "shined" on with promises and half assed efforts, whilst nothing actually gets done, and they continue to be placated by these half ass efforts and empty promises. Does this description sound familiar yet?

I couldn't care less if my questions pissed her off, I asked more.

Not sure what this has to do with anything, asking questions proves something? I'd have asked more, and before I arrived to sign any contract.

Anyway, these are also not little problems as you seem to point out,

Really, you have talked as if they are little problems in this post, let's continue and we will see where you at the least inferred this was the case by your lack of action, and so called good "gumption" to stick it out.

as many places around the world, even China, these problems would be resolved with more haste and efficiency. I think I was dealing with incompetence more than anything. What can you do besides make phone calls and make the occasional office visit?

You can do this and more out "before" you even get here.

Sanguine, I am not a quitter,

A shame, because sometimes quitting is the best option, and from the sound of it your life would have been better if you had quit, unless you were just making mountains out of mole hills and really liked the place, until the end when they canned you for having cancer. That would have pissed me off to by the way. Doesn't change the fact that it sounds like you are now trying to reduce the level of crappiness of this place to defend your staying.

I will not leave a situation, in life in general, unless it is real bad.

What exactly is real bad? I mean really, in today's modern world I think a lot of what you described was pretty bad, certainly an affront to you personally. Not to mention all the little comforts that are not so little when it gets really hot, or really cold. especially not having heat in the winter. Some people die from this "little" problem, and have their life spans shortened because of such barbaric conditions, but this is not bad? Ah yes, not to you, tough guy. Whilst you may think this kind of stoicism, and it is that, is noble, and admirable, it actually is not. You are sending a message to the school owner that he can easily get away with this kind of crap, and not take care of his foreign employees, that he does not have to treat them right, or honor the terms of the contract, and that's all OK. Why? Because nobody ever "does" anything about it. You have mistaken words for actions my friend. In truth your stoicism is making it harder for the rest of us, who want to have heat in winter, AC in the summer, and "little" things of that nature. Yes you are indeed bold and brave, and noble to take all this crap, but in the end you do yourself and the rest of us a disservice when you do so.

The cancer thing was when it got real bad.

The cancer is a personal illness, and is not connected to how the school treated you prior to it surfacing, and how you were treated in my estimation counts as real bad. I think you need to revamp what you consider tolerable, or acceptable treatment.

Other than that, I am a man who sticks with things and I don't appreciate your tone.

That's a shame, as for being a man who sticks with things, that's the problem here insofar as why there are so many bad jobs, people just "stick" it out, for fear, for stoicism, and for any number of other reasons that themselves are dismal and unacceptable to me.

Maybe you don't really stick with things,

I stick with things just fine, and have been living comfortable in China for over a decade now. Yes "comfortably". I don't stay at a job where I am treated like crap to prove a point to myself, or to others. If my home has no AC and it's 120 degrees, and it doesn't get fixed, I let them know to replace or repair it now, or I am gone. If they don't, I leave. If that is what you consider being a "quitter" than you are sorely misinterpreting both the words meaning and it's spirit, as well as the fact that sometimes quitting is a good and noble thing in and of itself. Do not be so absolutist in your perception of things, quitting does not always a quitter make.

but I believe it is a sign of commitment and character to stay with jobs as long as you can.

I agree to a point and disagree to a point. You can't apply absolutist ideals to what is in truth a mixed bag containing varying shades of grey. You need to go case by case, job by job. Were everyone to follow your philosophy, China would be an even worse place to work than it always is, with the ideals of "stoicism" embraced to the point where we would have to all have cancer and get canned for it before we did something about the harsh treatment we were receiving. As for staying as long as you can, what about as long as you should? We can all tolerate a lot more than we would like to have to, doesn't mean we should. Do you not see the connection between taking a ton of crap, and how this encourages bad employers by letting them know it's OK because you are taking it? I guess not.


NO I DO NOT MAKE OTHER FTs LOOK BAD - HOW DARE YOU!.

I never said you did, and spare us all the righteous indignation if you please. I said you make things worse for the rest of us when you stick around at what you have claimed is a crap job, because you are stoic, and it is bad character to just leave until the skin is falling of your bones. I got ya. However because of this "stoicism" you make finding a good job harder for the rest of us, because you take it, because you stick around, because you just won't quit, unless it gets "real bad". What am I saying that you do not understand?

Runners and similar people make FTs look bad.

Umm, no, and we are not talking about appearances here. I could care less what a crap English school owner thinks. As for other FT's, they know enough to know that runners are sometimes necessary. I was never talking about how we look, because Chinese school owners will always try and perpetuate a bad stereotype about us so as to justify how crappilly they treat us. Therefore, who exactly are you trying to prove anything to? I was never talking about how you look, only about what is best for all of us. You have mixed up some things here. While indeed someone pulling a runner, or even leaving the school with notice, might in your estimation look "bad", I am more concerned about how I am treated, my comfort, and how others who come after me will be treated. Most of us do not enjoy suffering.

The FL made matters worse. But I am a guest to this country, so forgive me if I have certain assumptions that ended up not being met.

I don't know what this means, sounds like you are saying that since you are a guest and don't know the culture that you took a lot because you chalked it up to culture. Could be wrong because your explanation was not good, but I have heard this argument before, and it is one which is responsible for foreigners taking a great deal of crap here.

Again, I DO NOT give FT a bad name and my students words, emails, evaluations, IM messages, etc. speak louder than I ever could. I actually taught them things in a fun way, and they loved it.

No one said you give FT's a bad name, that is your "misinterpretation" of my words. No, I said you make it harder through your own actions, or lack there of for other FT's to find good jobs, and it's because of teachers like yourself, grinding through instead of doing something, that keep things status quo, that status being crappy.

As for the FL liking me, please don't make me gag. I can admit she was pretty, but her personality was so rotten, I didn't even realize most of the time. Plus she had a husband and was trying to have a baby. Ugh, please god I hope you are not right about that! Although she was super jealous of my gf for staying over....ugh, don't want to think of it.

I think it is pretty clear that she liked you maybe, or she simply wanted your attention to make her feel good about herself, as she sounds pretty insecure. She would have sensed your dislike of her, and this her fragile ego could not take, so she needed to lash out and belittle you, as she felt belittled by your dislike. Classic signs of insecurity. However as you said she left, did she not?

My intent is not to bash you, or make you look bad, as appearances seem to matter so much to you, a fact Chinese will take advantage of. No, I am trying to highlight the kind of morals, ethics, and values that can get us into trouble when they are confronted with situation we have never encountered before in our own western countries. Gumption can be a good thing, sticking with something can be a good thing, but it is not a absolute ideal. If things are bad, you leave if things don't improve. You threaten it, intend it, and in the end do it. It is this kind of "action" that will improve things in a country like China, where the almighty buck, and not ethical or moral considerations, rein supreme. Not that those things would matter much either, as morality is a rather elastic thing. No, the only way to change things is to hit people in their pocket books, and in truth this reality is truth the world over. Vaunting your own tolerance for crap, and your ability to take ever larger amounts of it as a noble attribute only makes it harder for the rest of us, as it tells Chinese employers that they can get away with murder. Believe me they are used to hearing complaints, and it disturbs me that you equate words with actions. Your boss could have cared less for your complaints, that was made clear by his lack of "action". Generally only action will breed action, not words. That's why workers through out the world sometimes strike, or even "quit", perish the thought I know.

Maybe the job was not as bad as you painted it, and you only did so because you were angry, or maybe it was as bad as you made it sound. Sounded pretty bad to me, though in this message you have tried to downplay this in your attempts to defend staying. In the end though, staying around and taking it seems like a bad reaction to me, and one that will have a reaction "counter" to what you would want in the long run. In the short term such an attitude simply means nothing changes, you still suffer, and the fat cat school guy still gets to drive around his fancy car, which has AC and heat. In the long term everything stays the same because you, and others, chose to take it, sending the message that the way you were treated is OK. In the end we all sink or swim together, I wish people like yourself got this, really got this, it's the only mindset that will ever change things, here, and in the world abroad. Take care ;)

Messages In This Thread
China: Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Ambientman -- 2010-11-06
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Dragonized -- 2010-11-08
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Visas Schmisas -- 2010-11-09
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Ambientman -- 2010-11-12
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Visas Schmisas -- 2010-11-06
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Sanguine -- 2010-11-06
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Ambientman -- 2010-11-06
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Sanguine -- 2010-11-07
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- homie -- 2010-11-12
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Welshwales -- 2010-11-12
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Visas Schmisas -- 2010-11-07
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Ambientman -- 2010-11-07
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- crymeariver -- 2010-11-06
Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer). -- Former Shjg FT -- 2010-11-06
View Thread · Previous · Next Return to Index › Re Think twice before working at Hui Hua UNI in Shijiazhuang, China (and don't expect sympathy if you get sick (even if its cancer).





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