As Terry has mentioned about the grey areas, let me put my thoughts about what you have written down and give my opinion on what I think the situation can also be interepreted as:

In general, nobody I have ever met who has had significant experience teaching university students in China honestly maintains that they are NOT more sheltered and inexperienced than their Western counterparts.

As someone who has taught at the university level in China as well, I can say that on the surface the Chinese students can APPEAR to be more naive simply out of the fact that their maturity level is not equal to their western counterparts. The idea of a college age Western Student having more confidence to stand up to their own opinions, express their own opinions, and be more well equipped to bring out their own confidence with differing opinions in the face of an authority, parental, or societal figure is a well established pre-assumption in the developing societies.

However, the fact is the students in China will appeal to flattery to the western teachers and appear to be more naive and vulnerable when in fact they may be merely manipulating you about them being that way. Do not forget your foreign face, that is already a barrier to you getting the truth from them in how they see reality in general. I remember reading a banned Chinese book which quoted a mixed White-Asian American Female reporter by the name of Sheryl WuDunn and quoted her along the lines of saying how being in China with a Chinese face allowed her access to the real China.

Chinese students will generally not be as well mannered, have strong logical thought, and trust themselves and their own intuition when they are in a college environment as their western counterparts as well due to the cultural upbringing of keeping your opinions to yourself, but that doesn't mean they don't hold those opinions. The ugly politicking and lack of real friendships amongst themselves but making a lifetime effort to put up a facade of "TongXue" (classmate) connections is a good example of this. I cannot believe for a moment that logically there can be any GENUINE naivety with a group of people who are willing to forgo common sense and manipulate even themselves to the point where they forget how to form an honest, trusting relationship. Just look at the Chinese soap operas on TV in China with how husbands and wives interact with one another, the lack of an ability to keep an honest and decent conscious saps even the most basic intimacy from the closest relationships.

You boldly assert the 21 year old girl knows exactly what she's doing, but you have no evidence for your assertion. Therefore I will counter it by boldly asserting she has not idea whatsoever what she is getting into. You say that I seem "unwilling" to see that the Chinese "women" may be trying to use the man in question. We are not talking about "women". Let's not generalize it to the extent that it's a Chinese woman and a Western Man. It is a Chinese student who is only 21, and a Western teacher who is more than double her age. You are trying to play with words to make it sound like they are equal, but I am dealing with the reality of the situation. We are NOT talking about Chinese women, we are talking about a "barely legal" student. Let's not kid ourselves and try to use semantics to justify a totally inappropriate relationship.

I agree with the idea that it is inappropriate to have a relationship with a student who is 21 and you are twice her age. You did however forget to mention that it should be inappropriate in ANY country, developed or undeveloped. In your argument you merely attacked the individual who wanted the relationship with the student. What you didn't mention was justifying the higher moral standard that the teacher was supposed to bring. The problem of teachers having affairs with students or even committing rape/molestation with underage students isn't a western centric problem, it's become more common in China as well. Your continued focus with seemingly attacking the character of the original poster won't make him think his actions are less appropriate, it would bring shame at the most which can backfire if he is in a weaker emotional state and will only drive him to go deeper into his pursuit with the relationship.

I've worked with teachers who have dated their students, and in the case of one of them the students were all under aged (that was a training school). Bother were irresponsible teachers, and selfish. I'm sure you'd agree it's not appropriate to date under-aged students, yes? I thought so. But tack on one or two years and it's a perfectly consensual relationship between adults, is it. It's that black and white? Why, it could even hinge on a birthday.

Nobody ever said it was okay to date under-age students, the original poster certainly didn't. Your merely adding fuel to the fire for your own argument by putting others down with exaggeration. I wouldn't stand by the side of the original poster who asked if having a relationship with a woman 23 years your junior was appropriate or not, but whether or not you and I like it we don't always live in a fair world. If one of my family members went on a trek to Congo in the early 90's and ended up kidnapped and murdered would I think it's fair that this country should exist? If I was a western businessman who got shafted by some crooked locals and a corrupt government in any developing country should I then believe these places deserve our money? I would say no and no to both questions. But the fact is we don't control the behavior of others, we may only guide them. If you express your right ideas in the wrong manner, it may actually be used against you in the worst way and that is to ignore outright.

Argue this one: Go find a real woman outside of the university if you are worthy of having one, and leave the students alone. I'm not being a prude. I've had some hot steamy sex with willing Chinese women, and of course I am attracted to some of my students (and they to me), but I would NOT take advantage of students. Further, while they are attractive in their way, they are really too young for me. I would prefer someone who is actually a real adult, not just someone who has always lived with mommy up until a year ago and now lives in a dormitory at school but is technically by age an adult. I was there to protect them, in all ways, not take advantage of them.

Sure, if the local Chinese could speak English well, could communicate honestly and treat the foreigners with respect which you yourself had said you couldn't get. Your reasons sound just and absolutely right on the surface (again) but you don't give a resolution or suggestions to the foreign guy on how he can find a woman out of the immediate vicinity where he works at. I am not at this point saying it is okay for him to even think about pursuing this potential relationship with this 21 year old students, but your pre-occupation with seemingly winning the argument against the Magister poster would only turn off the original poster from considering your words. I don't think you think highly of the poster who started this thread, which means you already passed judgement against someone whom you haven't met either. But I believe carrying a little empathy and realizing expats are in a lonely place with a need for company can give you a better chance at giving more ideas since you would be operating from a more open mind.

If you can't meet a woman outside the university there's probably something wrong with you, in which case you are definitely not doing your students any favors by dating them. If you CAN find a woman outside the university, than leave your students the hell alone.

Clyde, can I ask you something? If I am not someone who frequents bars, goes clubbing, or likes to party (of which you can find aplenty in China) but am a person who participates in special interest clubs, outdoor activities, charities, and volunteer work (of which there is a scarcity of in China due to the selfish nature of many modern Chinese people, but you should know that from the previous posts I have read that you wrote) then where is a reliable outlet of decent, English speaking, and interesting people whom I can initially meet? Honestly ESL Teaching is not a glorious job, nor one with any stature in any developed country. When you say "wrong" did you apply those standards to yourself as well? I'm not just talking about dating standards, but all around.

Some of the other posters have already said they come here to have an easier life, and wouldn't ANY middle aged man who wasn't married and was single qualify as "wrong" by common sense standards of what is deemed as "normal" in any of the developed countries? What is normal to you? If I had to be totally honest with myself, I would say that being a man who just entered middle age the fact that I am not affluent, that I have not found my soulmate, and that I had to teach overseas to make it through some lean years would make me do enough introspection and think that my social, emotional, and maybe interpersonal skills were lacking in some ways. I can though always improve myself with support whether they be coming from people or from more spiritual sources, but I wouldn't take the advice from someone who merely says, "You can't...".

Normal people may not always be certain of many things, which I would say I have first hand experience in. But being that we all have had varying life experiences with interconnecting points of commonality I would say that I should go with the general consensus of what constitutes an adult relationship, and in this case because I do not know the 2 individuals involved I should refrain from judgement. I do believe that mistakes can often be the best teacher, and some things need to happen in order for the lesson to be learned. In this case either side could be making the mistake with being manipulated by the opposing party. Of course your own experience was different, so you have your ideas. Unfortunately making the closed statement in this case can only make the individual want to HOPE even more, of which more inappropriate behavior can follow. We don't know the emotional maturity level of the poster himself, either and how much romantic experience he has. Let's hope he makes the right choice, but he shouldn't have to do it with the belief that we are on a higher moral pedestal than he is.