San Migs, I hope this isn't your last post.

I want to share something with you. A week back when I was still having the disagreement with Mancunian and to a lesser degree with ASTF I made a draft of a response towards both of them. However I wanted to make sure that I could put all of my thoughts down in coherent fashion and I wasn't going to just post before not thinking this over because it's an issue I feel strongly about. However by the time I was finished with the draft I had already decided to come to a disagreement with both of those posters in a courtly manner as I didn't feel that we were necessarily too far apart with our views (as much as I thought in the beginning).

I have Italicized the response. I do not want to give Mancunian or ASTF the idea that I am continuing the old argument or starting a new one. I merely wanted to share some thought about this as it is a broad topic. But I think San Migs you would enjoy it the most. Here goes:

I would never care to compare anything if I didn’t feel like it could possibly get better. I criticize something if there is an emotional attachment. If one the other hand someone was ripping off the system wherever they were living I don’t think they would want to hear any criticisms because it would jeopardize their state of living. You seem to tie in your wealth and lifestyle to how good China has it for you. But for me and others who do not care about living like this we know that China and the Chinese are not going around the world making it a better place to live in. At home in the United States of America I see at my local supermarkets older Chinese who have not worked in the USA for a day in their lives but getting governmental aid in the form of food stamps and paying for food like this. Many “able bodied” young Chinese women who used certain leverage also came to the states as well as Canada with unexplained wealth that they use to purchase houses with and there are cases of these women strutting Louis Vuitton bags walking into the local unemployment agency asking for welfare benefits. A Chinese American woman I know personally admitted to me recently back when she wasn’t a naturalized citizen yet that she used to collect unemployment for quite a while and work as a babysitter on the side and not pay any tax with this job. Many Chinese who are working illegally in the states as well as Canada also do this. You see these types of people drain the economic system and contribute nothing of value back, so in the English language we call them LEECHES.

Now, being myself in the 18 – 35 single male demographic range, I know that unless I am making a huge salary that is in the upper class white collar area my age and gender basically GUARANTEES that I am paying more taxes to Uncle Sam than ANY OTHER demographics. All of the jobs I have held since I went back to the states guarantees that I will be paying taxes, and with the commission only sales jobs I am currently holding due to the 1099 Independent Contractor status every business I close I will be paying the HIGHEST tax rate possible. It is a fact that I am paying for all of these things that some people feel entitled to. I do try and comfort myself by thinking that these folks are the bottom of the barrel and they provide the perfect anti-model of how not to act like a responsible citizen, and they are certainly no worse than say …a gentleman who came back with a foreign woman that he married along with a kid or two and because he can’t find a good job he collects welfare on behalf of his kids, at least in name. Not that I’m implying anyone posting on here has done this before. After all if they didn’t go back to Britain, America, or Canada then at least that’s credit on their behalf.

So now how is it that you somehow find it sensible and even intelligent (you and the “asdf” poster) to try and incriminate me, shame me, and make me feel as if I shouldn’t even dare open my mouth for questioning the integrity of the modern society of China? You basically implied that thinking about such things makes me lose integrity. I think you need to go back and re-read your western history and find out how in fact societal tolerance of opposing viewpoints led to real progress. What’s even more ridiculous is that you are buying into the notion that the Chinese have more intelligence for no other reason that they are Chinese and they are in your words the “salt of the earth”, “wonderful”, and “generous” when you have not provided ample evidence on ANY of these fancy adjectives. What entitles the Chinese to just go abroad and mooch off of the host system wherever they’re at and not only should a local citizen that is me pay for it but also be happy about doing this without a word out of my mouth.

You complain and lecture to me how I shouldn’t generalize and categorize the whole country, the whole culture, the whole people but you use the exact same rule of logic when you refute my claims and YOU do not give a good reason as to why you are in a better position to abuse this logic for no other reason than the fact that it is you that is speaking, so therefore you are right. Clearly a statement like “Chinese women are the salt of the earth” is such an absurd generalization that it can be applied to any demographic. Why not talk about African women, Korean women, Japanese women, or other groups of women like this? You wouldn’t say this unless you were careless or you are so arrogant that you can just throw whatever thing you want into a discussion. Going back to Silverboy’s experience on QQ Zone he clearly stated details and gave credible information. You just want to cover up anything negative tied in with any Chinese entity by stereotyping ANYTHING Western as being worse without providing any evidence. Your recent remarks about Facebook and Twitter were good examples. For your information people who post stupid things on Facebook and Twitter get punished in real life with loss of employment, incarceration, and public humiliation. Have you tried to research if the QQ Zone boy who posted tripe about Silverboy got caught? Have you contacted Silverboy and asked who this person even is?

I will say this to any expat who is thinking about or is already working in China: You should not be made to feel that you need to bow down, be too grateful, or to be respectful of the Chinese just because you’re working in china. Anybody who is working in China is contracted for their services and skills that they possess. You give your time and effort and the Chinese company pays you for your services, it’s as simple as that. Any expat who is already there needs to know that you do not owe anything to anybody as long as you are doing your job. If I stooped even a little bit to your level of thinking I should say that as western foreigners we go to china because we are really following the capital that was taken away from our own respective countries and so we go there to take back a little of what belongs to us in the first place. As another poster has said on this board: Foreigners in China owe the Chinese nothing! A country that expect all expats to register at the local police station within 24 -72 hours after arriving in the country as well as expecting release letters from your most recent former employer if you are switching jobs within China means that the powers that be views every foreigner as a possible Enemy Combatant to keep tabs on at all times. Recently while reading a book on Eastern Philosophy a citation from Sun Tzu’s The Art of War, “When combating the enemy, it is best to take the fight to their land” was used and I couldn’t help but feel that the people who came up with this would know what it meant the best, hence the fear of outsiders and the excessive control.

Can we all take a step back and look at our own respective behaviors for one minute? We have disagreed, yes. But we all have showed the ability to be mutually respectful towards one another, be empathetic enough to acknowledge one another's responses, and we were able to end the disagreements on civil terms without hating each others' guts. I think at the end of the day posters like Foxy, Mancunian, and maybe ASTF speak out of the fact that China provided them employment and a roof over their heads, and they are expressing themselves on some point of gratitude. Now I'm not going to let go of the possibility that some of the posters have been made to feel guilty for some reason and that is another possible reason why they have disagreed with me and with others posters like Silverboy. But at the end of the day Gratitude and Guilt are things that are possessed by more virtuous individuals, and any ideas/statements formed on those things shouldn't be disregarded. However at the same time I must state IMO that while there are Americans and Canadians of Chinese ancestry who show their gratitude towards their respective countries of citizenship, there are plenty who, having acquired green cards and citizenship in a different country who don't! This is why we live, observe, and come to our conclusions.

We can talk about this all day, but I want to ask anyone and everyone who has posted on here: Have you seen any major Chinese media or corporations or popular discussion forums even bring up the topic on the plight of expats and the crappy working conditions they are put through? Have we heard any famous Chinese speak out on behalf for the rights of expats working in China? No we haven't. I think one female expat teacher I met last year said it best to me: In China foreign teachers are seen as migrant workers, albeit ones making a higher salary than Chinese migrant workers but still looked down upon nonetheless as people with low status.

I would like to also state that overseas Chinese Language Media that isn't run by Taiwanese folks predominantly leer towards a pro-Chinese, pro-Communist government paradigm. These media outlets are freely allowed to run anywhere in Canada and the USA. The Chinese Flag is freely flown in Manhattan in New York City. Folks who live in North America can freely access tudou.com, youku.com, 56.com, and other youtube-like media entities. Ren-ren is also of course freely accessible. People may also freely talk shyte about the USA and Canada however they want even if they are living there without worrying too much about consequences like being taken in the middle of the night and "disappeared". Come to China and try flying an American flag anywhere outside. I do not need to repeat Facebook and youtube.

If Chinese people immigrate to a western country and can freely enjoy the benefits of governmental aid such as welfare, food stamps, and general charity from their adopted societies while talking freely about how the USA and Canada is this and that; Western countries aren't as good as China because of this and that then any expat living and working in China can and should freely criticize without having to worry about being labeled as feeling superior. After all expats aren't entitled to any government benefits from the Chinese government, so it is not exactly an even trade. As a matter of fact, criticizing on a discussion board is kind of a last resort as there really isn't any outlet in China for expats to go to.

While expats follow a set of rules and ethics and debate over the logic of judging certain groups of people, there are plenty of the same people who will continue to take and take more from the countries that they go to without having contributed a dime to the systems they are living in. While expats show concern over equality and altruism and talk about how one should not feel superior, there are folks from that defended category who do not care about anyone's opinions on right or wrong and will only continue to live to get ahead of everyone else.

Anyone who thinks I have an agenda to show people up and prove superiority is misunderstanding my point. I say some places are better than others not because I am racist or I have a fragile ego or such. I base my conclusions out of measuring how humanistic, compassionate, and logically intelligent a society is. By arguing against what I have said those posters show they are not timid about criticizing which they would only do towards people that they feel more familiar with(people from western countries). They may also feel they benefited from Chinese people and feel an obligation. Those traits are things that many Chinese can learn from and take, as there are not nearly enough who do.