TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
View Thread · Previous · Next Return to Index › Re Betheism is doctrinal- for sure!
Beth - 2014-11-06

(1) all education should be free, accessible to all regardless of money and income, and that education should not be mixed with business because business and quality education mutually exclude each other - they are antagonisms.
Education is at some levels always business. Education is never free, someone always pays be it through tuition fees or tax payers funds. You say that you wouldn't work for less than a certain salary, so that is business entering education. Your philosophy is such a contradiction to your actual state of being, it's luaghable.

(2) ESL is "fed" by Linguistics, and that English Linguistics is the theoretical
basis for everything that matters in ESL.
Linguistics is a part of ESL teaching, I've never said otherwise, it is not however the only facet to it. Please provide links to where I have ever said otherwise?

(3) ESL is everything about English that is taught to non-native speakers of English, including academic courses in ESL Pedagogy, Translation, Linguistics and Literature.
ESL is English as a Second Language... The clue really is in the title with this one. Nobody has suggested that further study of English as foreign speker is not ESL, but you appear to be dismissing the fact the the vast majority of ESL teaching happens way before the tertiary stage and is in fact mainly about acquisition and unlocking of the language in order to communicate verbally and understand written and spoken language. That is the meat of ESL teaching, something you have zero experience of teaching.

You deny all that,
No, I disagree with certain aspects of it. It's only your bias and lack of reading comprehension skills that lead you to think otherwise.

(1) you follow a neo-liberal doctrine, which on the continent is the common term for Thatcherism.
I don't follow any doctrine. Liberalism and Thatcherism are two philosophies very much at opposing ends of the scale, you are just making yourself look foolish by saying such nonsense. Nothing I have said on here has ever alluded to my political leanings. All I have ever advocated for is doing your very best for the students in your care as you have a duty to them. The rest of it is just nonsensical blustering from you.

(2) you follow your own ontology because you are not aware/ignorant how Foreign Language Pedagogy historically developed in connection with Linguistics. If you really had the qualifications you claim to have, you should be aware of that instead of denying it, or the qualifications you have are a bit sub.standard because they do not cover these essential points. I am referring to your PGC/D in particular.

1: To quote Inigo Montoya in the classic film The Princess Bride... "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" So let's clear it up for you... Ontology: the philosophical study of the nature of being, becoming, existence, or reality, as well as the basic categories of being and their relations.
Absolutely nothing to do with ESL teaching or my approach to it! Unless of course you're changing the meaning of words again?!
2: I am fully aware of the role linguistics played in the origins of foreign language teaching. I have never said that it isn't interesting or worth knowing about. What I have said is that it plays no role in front line ESL teaching as we do it today. Knowing how a language developed, knowing how the methods of teaching were developed does not effect the use of best practices as we know them today. Suggesting that you have to know every bit of history of a language in order to teach it is akin to saying a heart surgeon must know every historical advance or theory on the workings of the human heart in order to perform surgery today. It's interesting, but not essential for getting a class of teenagers to pass their B1 exam!

(3) you again follow your private ontology that ESL is limited to teaching practical English language skills and that you deny that for example teaching English Literature to Chinese English majors also is ESL.
Please provide links to where I've said ESL teaching is limited to practical English skills? I haven't. This is just another fallacy you have created. I've said that teaching advanced level English to students is a different skill to teaching them from nothing. But I've never said it is not ESL teaching.

There are even certain methodological procedures to teach Literature courses that decent foreign language teachers are trained in and which is mandatory for most of them.
I think we've already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt my knowledge on Literature degrees and their components far out strips your own. And as I have a first in Literature, this comment is actually more of a compliment than anything else! Although it is another complete contradiction for you seeing as it wasn't that long ago you were arguing that Literature had absolutely no relevance to ESL teaching!

Since you focus on working in corporate structures making ESL a business, it is clear that you will focus on teaching ESL language skills only - this is the most profitable part covered by the ESL industry; with courses in English Literature, Linguistics etc,. they cannot make any money at all or would make much less - the so-called market dictates and rules them. Real education should not be subjected to market demands but to what is deemed essential for a certain group of students.
My only focus is on teaching my students well and giving them a good education in the use of English, enough so that they can advance on the CEFR and gain qualifications that will help them either enter a foreign university or help with their chances of employment. You are the only one who is focused on the money side of ESL. And yes I focus on teaching ESL language skills because I am an ESL language teacher, you dolt!. It's nothing to do with profit! And language skills is a board term, language skills means I teach everything from oral, written, reading and listening skills, from A1 beginner to C2 Proficiency. You don't have a clue of what is involved in taking a student through to C2 level English. You refuse to look at the components of a B2+ exam, if you would you would understand that I teach advanced writing skills and advanced reading analysis. Your ignorance on this subject is chasmic!
Messages In This Thread
Re Betheism is doctrinal- for sure! -- Beth -- 2014-11-06
View Thread · Previous · Next Return to Index › Re Betheism is doctrinal- for sure!





Go to another board -