Best get your own facts straight Choatle. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." This is the quote attributed to Shakespeare from Hamlet. Not to worry though, it's often misquoted and/or used in the context that you used it.

The following however, speaking of "methinks," would apply, not to Dave, who is, after all only trying to offer some balance to this recent imbalanced thread, but to foul mouthed blokes such as Turnoi:

"Methinks I see thee, now thou art so low, as one dead in a tomb" - Romeo and Juliet.

Okay Turnoi, call me an apologist, call me a recruiter, call me a defender, call me anything you want; just don't call me late to dinner. And by the way, what exactly are you a Doctor of and from where did you get the degrees you claim to have? One poster suggested you bought them. Are you prepared to dispute that?

And Choatle, could you please explain what intelligence or innocence have to do with one's ability or propensity to protest. Oh, sorry, let me quote you: "No wonder he protests so much, when if he were smart, or innocent, he'd just shut up." Huh? Let me get this straight: If I'm smart or innocent, I should shut up? Ok, I'll just wait until I wake up one day with a bad case of stupidity coupled with guilt before I lodge any complaints.

Well, there's no doubt in my mind that Frank Zhang, he of many aliases, has shafted more than his share of unsuspecting FT's; however, "caveat emptor," though not directly applicable in these situations, does suggest that one should at least do a modicum of research before committing to such an important undertaking as teaching in China. A little research into business culture in China would reveal that the Chinese are only now just emerging from the notion that a balanced deal is totally unacceptable. That is, one must come out on top or lose face. And oh yes, no one from the West would ever consider taking advantage of the Chinese - if you believe that, I've got some great swampland to sell you in Florida.

Finally, I'm convinced, without any absolute data to back up that conviction, that most teachers who fall victim to Frank and his ilk were trying to scam their way into Chinese classrooms anyway - just trying to add to the ranks of scammers who've successfully pulled the wool over the eyes of the innocent and hopeful. Whoops! It just didn't quite work out the way they were planning as they said goodbye to their unskilled labor jobs or unemployment lines in America or wherever and tried passing themselves off as qualified teachers of the English language. Gee sorry, Choatle, if that rings a bell, I can only ask that you not take it too personally. Actually, I really admire your English usage - it's quite quaint in some ways and definitely adds to the argument that "it takes all kinds." Moreover, it would really be fun to be in your classroomsand observe how you explain about all the Englishes that exist in the world after your students correct your mistakes for you. Yes sir, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in your classroom and probably half of the other classrooms of the "FT's" you are so quick to defend against the likes of me.

Actually I have had direct experience with him. No I don't want to go into specifics. Why? Because Frank Zhang has made it quite clear he will go to great lengths to get back at someone if he is able to know who they are and where they are. Is he likely to find out where, no, as for who, do you think I want all myt personal info plastered all over the net by this man, who would slander me, as he already has? He has done so without hesitation already, has he not? You are a very stupid man not to see what is self evident Dave.

As for only five people, what is your point? Not all of those posts were made by just five people, and let's be honest, The majority posted for Frank Zhang are by Frank Zhang, duh.

Anyone every here the saying "Thou doth protest too much." It is an old Shakesperean saying. What it means for people like Dave who are too stupid to see what is self evident is this. If you are fearful of others finding out the truth about you, and that truth is bad, you will strike out so as to convince people the opposite is true. If you are innocent of what others are saying, that will be self evident, so why bother saying anything.

Often a very few brave people will speak out againbst someone like Frank, especially considering his past threats and bullying tactics.

People like Dave want you to ignore the fact that Frank has made threats to have cop buddies arrest anyone who speaks out about him if he is able to find out who and where they are. I take these threats seriously. These facts alone speak to the truth of Frank Zhang being akin to a gangster, certainly it speaks to him being a scumbag, and someone of ill repute. Does Dave mention these facts? Of course not, because he is not privvy to these facts, or he works for Frank Zhang. Or, the third option is that he is just a loser with too much time on his hands, which might be self evident since he took the time to count hundreds of posts and create a score card.

Whatever the case may be, Frank has not only scared many people into silence, but with his swariming methods, having flunkies and friends attack anyone who speaks out, is it any wonder fewer people will come forward and speak out here? I think not.

It is funny, Dave wants you to believe the words against Frank are spurious, mainly because so few people have come forward. However so few have come forward because of the fact that Frank is so effective at scaring and intimidating people with his threats and BS. Not hard to do since he deals with a lot of people who are not legal workers here, and if they devulge too much info, he will know who they are, not good for them. Therefore, the conclusion he is trying to reach, that the words against old Frankie boy hold little wieght since so few have come forward, well, that conclusion is the one which holds no weight. Few have come forward, not because of lack of people to complain, but because of threats by mister Zhang, which further prove our point about him, that he is a petty bully, and indeed he does protest far too much.

If our words are baseless and he is so honorable and honest, why would he need to retaliate, speak out, threaten, cajole, and post with so many alter egos, if we were wrong? The truth would sort itself out, wouldn't it?

The truth here is really quite obvious, but for some reason, people like Dave want to distract you from the truth, and obscure what is obvious, that being that frank Zhang is indeed all that has been claimed, and more. No wonder he protests so much, when if he were smart, or innocent, he'd just shut up. Case closed.

Interesting post, Dave. You made some good points.

There were one or two things you didn't consider when counting how many positive posts were made in Frank Zhang's favour, though. The following questions and points should be considered:

Does Frank Zhang concentrate mainly on recruiting FOREIGN teachers?

How many of the 118 posts that favoured Zhang had a "Chinglish" feel to them?

If a post contained a large amount of "Chinglish" doesn't that leave a question mark regarding the authenticity of the post?

While there are quite a few non-natives teaching here with dodgy English skills, those posts that look as if they've clearly been written by a non-native can still be called into question. If Frank Zhang doesn't recruit non-native speakers or only a few, wouldn't that call into question the authenticity of the posts even more?

A lot of posters who favoured Zhang had a name including surname that suggested that they were a NATIVE SPEAKER yet they wrote using the kind of English that is commonly employed by a NON NATIVE speaker. Does this not leave room for doubt about the authenticity of those posts? If they were native speakers why did they clearly "sound" like NON NATIVE speakers?

Some of those favourable posts, in fact, many of them, could have been written by Frank himself or at least a friend or associate of his.