Hi James,

You won't know me but I started at Web Shaoxing when it commenced in April 2004.
I enjoyed my time there, and went on to other Universities and private schools to get as broard experience as possible.
I ended up with teaching as a new found passion, and did a Masters degree with a thesis on "Teaching English to Chinse Students" specifically addressing the 'deaf dumb problem' which we know as the difficulty Chinese students have with their speaking.

I found what you said to be very interesting and quite sound from my experience.

I married a Chinese lady who at present is studying for a teaching diploma at our University . We hope to return to China some day and I would love to resume teaching.

Regards

ROB.COOPER

My dear Bi-Cultural friend,

After all these years of teaching I'm surprised that you still don't know the difference between a professional and a profession.

May I yada some more here and make it clear?

All professions deal with helping people. Such as, lawyer, doctor, teacher, social worker, etc. They require professional licensing.

All professions have a code of ethics to follow, such as lawyer, doctor, teacher, social worker etc.

Ethics are written by those who serve in the highest positions of universities, such as PhD & Masters research students etc.

A professional singer or race car driver does not belong to any Professional organization that writes ethics on playing music.

Neither does the race car driver.

A professional office worker, salesman, engineer, or basketball star - He's just an expert at what he does, and what he does has nothing to do with life or death situations - Unless of course he's a member of the front band of a rolling-stones concert at a Hells Angels Rally. Then he might be called on to calm the situation down by singing lullabies when a fans get killed.

The only excepting is being a CPA - CPA's have a code of ethics and professional Journal, and they are supposed to be professional - And they are a helping profession who require higher education and licensing. Yea, good luck finding an ethical accountant here. And if you're looking for one - Buy some little green gift envelopes.

Yada! Yada! Yada!

Singing in a band is a career.

No, that's a profession, too.

Grovelling weasels in a chorus, with one of them whispering and the other barking etc., is a career and not a profession because they would lack all the essential skills to make a fine team.

Yadda, yadda, yodda....

James has assisted the filthy Chinese employers as well as I have before. So, both of us are guilty of helping the crooks open/operate their centers, impose their own will on customers as well as employees and then possibly launder their dirty money. Sure that had James or I not done it, some others would have done it instead. However, if we refused to be a part of their farce "business" more often, there would most likely be fewer farce "businesses" around, wouldn't there? I really don't think that any Chinese business person would be up for opening a language training center on his/her own or with a few fella Chinese quick western MBA holders that can only follow the manuals written by foreigners.

Now, James it's the time to fess up to our poor decisions we've made and let's face the consequences of our actions. There are many poorly managed language centers around the country and there are many cheated customers and fts as well. There has been a lot of dirty money laundered through these kinda operations and some of this money has actually ended up in our own countries and accounts of the fine "international operations" posing as "franchisors". Moreover, there are all kinda foreign teachers around as opportunities for virtually anybody have been created and that throught some unprofessional or shall I say clueless recruiters/HR departments of these centers. And, more rainforest has been destroyed further too as some desperate employers have opted for copy machinese since the foreign academic material is more expensive.

In Web Inernational they've got a standard now and that is that the foreign academics are the edutainers first. Therefore there isn't much of a qualification required as if you are able to entertain you've got the job. And, you can guess who makes decisions about who gets hired and who evaluates these fine foreign academics or shal I say edutainers. There are often some lovely young Chinese management staff members fresh out of their Chinese Colleges, well brainwashed to carry out their well assigned tasks on daily basis. Can you imagine a 60 year old UK academic that's tought for at least a couple decades, now being told by this fine young Chinese coordinator that, in her as well as in the students views, he isn't good enough to teach English?

Cheers and beers to all of us as we are soon to make our exits out of this 5,000 years old country :)

If I was to give some slack to the teachers involved, I could say that the unfamiliarity of their new surroundings (in China) may have caused their hyper-defensive and critical and attacking attitude. Also, many teachers in China have chosen 'teaching' as their second career (previously being employed in some non-teaching role), so there is a certain amount of inexperience that teachers unwittingly (and unfairly) convert into hostility, defensiveness and criticism; when unsure, go on the attack! This is a personal issue for each individual and WEB International (nor any employer) can not be responsible for the personal state of mind of its employees.

The best teachers (in my experience) are those who are happy and patient individuals, and ready to 'give' - after all, teaching is a 'giving' profession!

Dear All,
In 2004 I assisted WEB International with the opening of the training Center in Suzhou.

Through my American company and employer, I provided full time training services to WEB International under a two year contract with my company, and from time to time, I continue to provide these services today on an as needed basis.

Additionally, I am familiar with most Ex-WEB 'Teachers', and I am also familiar with many of the issues, allegations, criticisms, complaints and whines on this thread. Many of the dozen or so postings on this thread are mere rantings, in one form or another, by ex-employees who, for one reason or another, have been unhappy during their time at WEB International.

It is true that there are many ups and downs; many high quality and low quality training positions at the large range of English teaching schools and training centers in China (or any country for that matter) however, there are also many incompetent and incapable individuals who have elected to teach as a career.

For many years, I have been involved in decisions to both hire and remove 'teachers' at WEB International and I have also advised on various related issues, such as improving the management processes (which I admit are not perfect). But, I wish to state here that I have fully supported all dismissals that I was involved with. Most dismissals were related to repeated student complaints - customer satisfaction being one of the Key Performance Indicators in this business. Additionally, many dismissals were related to repeated failures by teachers to 'show-up' (or even call in). And, all those that resigned abruptly where about to be fired.

Some dismissals were also related to very poor communication techniques such as displays of anger, unprofessional language and a failure to respect others. In all such cases, my view was that these teachers should have chosen another career path.

If I was to give some slack to the teachers involved, I could say that the unfamiliarity of their new surroundings (in China) may have caused their hyper-defensive and critical and attacking attitude. Also, many teachers in China have chosen 'teaching' as their second career (previously being employed in some non-teaching role), so there is a certain amount of inexperience that teachers unwittingly (and unfairly) convert into hostility, defensiveness and criticism; when unsure, go on the attack! This is a personal issue for each individual and WEB International (nor any employer) can not be responsible for the personal state of mind of its employees.

The best teachers (in my experience) are those who are happy and patient individuals, and ready to 'give' - after all, teaching is a 'giving' profession!

We can all be critical of teaching material; much of which is seriously wanting, but the good teacher can work around that. Teaching also requires some organizational skill, patience, and the ability to show empathy to students, especially in the small-class (4 students) environment of WEB International.

Some postings criticized the teacher accommodation, however most training centers provide a monthly allowance of around 1,500 to 1,700 RMB towards rent, so the teacher is free to choose a place of their liking; in Suzhou I have rented a nice house for 3,000 RMB each month - more than any training center allowance, but this is my choice as most places at 1,500 or below are hovels. Good accommodation is usually provided gratis to University teachers but the salaries at the universities can be lower than the private training centers, although this seems to be changing with many foreign Universities now paying around 20,000+ RMB per month to qualified individuals for a 40 hour week, and you do all class preparation. Private training centers usually pay around 10,000 (including all allowances) for a 25 hour week and minimal preparation. So the difference seems justified.

Some postings criticized the teaching format or hours with some stating they were exhausted before the end of the week after 19 hours of 'talking' complaining that the universities only schedule around 12 class hours per week; it is true that university teaching is 'presentation' format with much of the class time consumed by teacher 'talking' whereas, in the private training centers, the students complete their learning on-line in the computer lab prior to the class. So the class time should in fact be dominated by the student talking (not the teacher) in response to the prepared questions provided in the teachers class notes - and it does require some skill and patience to get the students to open their mouth :) But this is where the skill level of the teacher can make the private training center work easy... or difficult! Some teachers just can't help themselves... they just want to talk and talk... and, while unnecessary, that would be exhausting!

The work at WEB is relatively easy with a minimum level of preparation. I did one term at a University in Suzhou (as their contracted teacher failed to show up on the agreed date); I taught Contemporary World Studies for one semester - 500 students divided into 6 two-hour classes with typical class sizes ranging from 60 to 100 students, and at the universities the teacher usually prepares all material; I had to research each week's topic and prepare 35 PowerPoint slides... every week!

WEB International teachers have 5 class hours each day for 5 days each week for a total of 25 class hours each week. And while contracts usually specify a daily shift of 8 hours, nobody is chained to their seat and all are free to go out for a coffee or for whatever... as long as you deliver your class in a professional and on-time manner.

If anyone has any specific questions not addressed here, you can reply here and I will do my best to respond.

This sounds like a part time gig I did for 4 months last year. It was only on weekends, but it took most of the week to recover from it. Why, because they had you doing 19 classes in two days. 40 min classes followed by a 10 minute break. The first three classes were broken by an hour and a half lunch, however the last 6 went straight through with no extra break time. I know all about the hoarse throat and the feeling of being burnt out, far from an ideal situation. How anyone could cope with this kind of schedule for a year is beyond me. That's just it though, they can't which is why so many people quit after so short a time period. I hate language mills intensely, as silverboy said, the money can be good, but after a while it's just not worth it.

"Teaching hours are generally shorter"
Guess it depends on what you mean by "teaching hours". Most unis' base packages are for 12-16 hours per week; last I heard Web had you on the hook for 25 a week. Most private training centers follow the same pattern.

Web in Suzhou has generally been a revolving door...most teachers haven't stayed there long. Web Suzhou is not particularly dishonest; people just tend to quickly decide that the deal you get there is pretty lousy. Local teachers seem to regard it as a contingency job...Web's pretty much always hiring (see "revolving door", above), and it's seen as a place to get a job to hold you over until you find something better.