Re: LCI KIDS CLUB GWANGJU

Sorry, Carter. You're not the one I was responding to. I was responding to Tributary.

Re: LCI KIDS CLUB GWANGJU

Sorry, I gotta reply to this one again.

"All workplaces have clique (sic), this is undeniable. NO matter where you work!!"

Not true. You're always going to have similar people who gravitate towards each other and form groups, but that is not what a clique is. A clique has an exclusive element to it. I don't remember a workplace in my life that had an actual clique.

"But working in Korea is definitely not like working in the states; well news flash...YOUR (sic) NOT IN THE STATES ANYMORE!!"

This raises an interesting point. Should understanding be a two-way street? I think if I ran a business, and I relied heavily on foreign employees, I would educate myself as much as I could on THEIR culture, and hope that they did the same, so there would be an overlap of understanding. I wouldn't be stubborn and arrogant and expect that the responsibility lied completely with them. If the employees became unhappy and started dropping like flies, I'd probably find out exactly what the problem was and fix it.

When the bosses consantly berated me over trivial issues on an almost daily basis, and I didn't respond to it, and I became visibly unhappy, why didn't they stop? They could see it wasn't working. These were never helpful meetings, they were always "are you too stupid to figure this out" type tongue-lashings. Then they wondered why I never voluntarily went in to talk to them! Every time I got anywhere near that office, it gave them a chance to berate me again! I just decided to avoid them as much as I could. Are you going to tell me that that's something I should've just gotten used to? Because I wasn't "in the States anymore?" Or should I have just done what someone advised me once: "just flirt with her a little, tell her she's pretty, and then she'll help you." I don't think I should have to flirt just to get help. I shouldn't have to lie either, which I would be doing if I told her she was pretty. This is why the idea of "understanding" should go both ways, and not be solely on one side.

Re: LCI KIDS CLUB GWANGJU

What he should have said was, "I'm fed up with all the negative things J has to say, because its affectng me personally."
You know what I'm fed up with? People whining about others being "negative" when they're telling the truth. This is the same mindset that gets people to complain about "bad news" on tv, turning the newscasts into nothing more than celebrity gossip and kitten rescue stories. I'm sorry to break it to you, but there are negative things in the world. Talking about them is helpful; pretending they don't exist is unhealthy.

Re: LCI KIDS CLUB GWANGJU

I can't help but laugh at this Brandon fellows post. Talk about an Uncle Tom mentality, I believe I spoke of this in my questions post in regards to people who will do and put up with anything.

The fellow does make a great effort to sound calm, rational, and well spoken, however he doesn't actually "say" anything.

You can always tell the bogus people who don't have a leg to stand on from the people who have a legitimite gripe, the people who have a legite gripe tend to be specific about "what" that gripe is. This fellow just casts vague dispersions on the fellow who worked for, and complained about this fellows current place of employment. If you are going to complain about someone and there is a real problem, than you name the problem specifically, otherwise your critiques carry no weight, and I would indeed call you a whiner.

He says "J was bad at his job" exact words. How exactly was he bad at his job? Hmm, too big a quesiton I suppose, guess it's just easier to bad mouth someone instead of give real concrete reasons for your arguements, and tell us why he was actually bad. Let's move on.

He says J was not willing to sit down and talk with his boss about his life and his concerns? So what, what exactly does this critique even mean. You now actually do name a fact, but you don't tell us what it is supposed to mean. Is he a bad teacher because of this, a submarine mechanic because of this, a chef? Talk about vague. What exactly is the harm that was caused by this fact? The one time you name an instance specifically, yet you don't put a name to it in regards to what it means? He didn't avail himself of the chance to speak to his boss about problems, so you say. What doe's this mean in regards to anything, please enlighten us? Doe's it mean he was a fan dancer, he likes daisies? Could you be more vague?

You say J consistently ignored other teachers and made more work for them. Mind telling us how? I just find it odd how you think you can come on here, throw about vague accusations, and expect to be believed. For the people here to entertain your words there have to be specific instances named within your accounts to back them up. How did he create more work for the rest of you? What do you mean when you say he avoided other teachers? Did he ignore them completely? Not socialize much? If so, what are you claiming this has to do with his job performance? Beware folks of people who cast dispersions but do so with vague ambiguous accusations that give little if any detail.

I don't get it, you speak of peoples interests and hobbies, and than mention J is traveling, and he is good at it. What doe's that mean exactly. It sounds like your infering that he traveled more than he worked, or that he was just a backbacker and all he cared about is traveling. You get more and more vague as your post goes on, attacking this fellow in ever more subtle ways, so as to be free from being able to be disagreed with or debated on your points, because you have none. Very slick, but I've seen it all before Uncle Tom.

You had weekly meetings and J attended, what exactly is your complaint, that he was never too "keen" on them? If anyone here has taught kindergareten my qustion would be, "who would be"? Who cares if he did not like the meetings? If he was there he was doing his job. Seems to me like your reaching and searching for bad things to accuse J of, though as of yet I haven't heard one thing that actually comes close to an accusation, just a lot of mud slinging with no basis in actual events, else why not give those actual events. Your credibility is pretty thin at this point Brandon.

I find the next part you write amusing, and I have to wonder if English actually is your first language. It is quite plausible you are Korean, which would explain the overly formal way you speak. Many non native speakers can speak perfect English, but a trait many share is an overly formal way of speaking it, it's pretty easy to spot.

Anyhow, if English really is your first language, I'm surprised you think "Your child is still learning the vocabulary and does very well when he is paying attention" has the same meaning as "Your kid cannot speak English and fails to listen to me when I am talking." I mean come on pal, the two are not even close in meaning.

Also, how was he being a jerk? A good teacher should be honest, I find your sentence to be a complete lie, no such thing as bending the truth, a lie is lie, while J is being honest, and your lying through your teeth. Avoiding the truth is also in my mind a lie bucko, so don't try that lame arguement. If the kid ain't listening, than he ain't listening, I'm gonna lie about that? Please, again, where is the wrong action on this fellows part. Your words and your attitude are similiar to what whistle blowers who were superb employees before blowing the whistle that is, had to go through afterwards. Hmm.

You say J was kindly rewarded for doing next to nothing. Could you explain this? Calling the fellow lazy, which is what it seems like your doing, (because you don't seem to have the courage to accuse him of anything outright) means nothing without giving us examples. You can make any vague claim you like, but without backing it up, your just slinging mud, yet again.

You are only required to work three Saturdays a year? Good for you, what does that have to do with anything? Now your recruiting for your school, silently infering J had a problem with that as well maybe? Like I said, your sly, but I've seen you your type before Tommy boy.

As for naming your salary again, shamelessly trying to recruit, spare us, your post has the exact opposite effect, and has enamoured no one to you, or your school.

Your fed up with all the negative posts people place about their schools. Yes, I'm sure you are, what with it being your school and all that's being spoken ill of. Give us a break my Korean friend, or are you really expecting us to believe your a teacher there? If so, you have your hand in the cookie jar, no quesiton about that.

Word to the wise, and unwise. If your going to "try" and smear someone, do a better job than this fellow. Have real actual events you can speak to which point to the validity of your asseration. Don't just come here, make an assertion, and back it up with nothing but smoke, that just won't do at all. I'm all for both schools and teachers speaking the truth and defending themselves, but do it correctly, and honestly, don't cast dispersions and try to sully someone when you have nothing to actually speak of, and choose only to sling mud. Infering this fellow is bad and lazy and ungrateful while you can't actually give one single example of any such actions is irresponsible and just plain wrong.

Your school sounds like a place to be avoided if your actions in this post speak to it's quality. I'd advise people to avoid this place, bigtime.

Re: LCI KIDS CLUB GWANGJU

I personally feel that you make your school look even worse by spending so much of your post trashing the former teacher. It's no different than the hagwan owner who blackballs his former teachers. I've seen it so many times.
As a prospective teacher, I would be more concerned with the condition of the school than with the quality of a former teacher. If your best defense is to attack the messenger, then I think you really don't have much of a defense. Besides, I wouldn't want to work somewhere where I could be trashed on the internet if I was fired.

Re: LCI KIDS CLUB GWANGJU

I appreciate Brandon's comments and I respect his opinion, but I disagree with most of what he said. It's really nothing more than the "blame the victim" mentality that is so prevelant.

1) Apparently my problems stemmed from being a bad teacher. I obviously disagree, but whether that's true or not doesn't really matter. Fact is; I was not only fired without notice, but locked out of my apartment, assaulted by the boss (and subsequently chased by said boss for 3 blocks), and had all my possessions taken by the boss. How would Brandon possibly justify that behavior? I don't care if someone is the worst teacher in the history of teaching, NO ONE deserves that treatment. I think it's ironic that during my first few months there (when I was more willing to put up with the bs and brown nose a little), I was told that I was a great teacher, and the parents were very happy with me. Now, after the fact, it's being said that I was a bad teacher all along. Your teaching ability is seemingly based on how much the owners like you personally, and nothing else. Whether you're on their good or bad side can change at a moment's notice, too.

2) Brandon failed to mention that the 2 new teachers who arrived the Monday after I left lasted 4 days before they ran away in the night. They obviously saw that this place was bs, they saw the place with their own eyes and made their own decisions. Midnight runs are common enough that they take out 600,000 won (!) as an "unpaid utility deposit" to help protect them from such occurences. I think if the bosses merely treated their employees better, and teachers weren't afraid of the reprecussions from trying to quit with notice, then they would have a better method to prevent them.

3) This is almost entirely false. I will admit to being in a clique, I hung out with the older folks because they were the only seemingly normal ones. The people I had hung out with before had become so petty and gossipy that I couldn't stand it anymore. One of them had become very passive-aggressive to me stemming from an off-hours incident that I won't go into. Another one had gone around the office and told people things that others had supposedly said about them, which were either untrue or taken out of context. When I started withdrawing from them, they took it personal and amped up their cattiness. There are schools with more laid-back and easy going people, why go here and put up with the drama?

4) There were 4 of us who arrived the same day as new teachers. Our first day in the office, no one acknowledged our presence. It was like some aliens had just been teleported to the office. It took about 10 minutes before someone finally introduced themselves to us. Subsequent teachers have had the same experience. Is this normal behavior?

5) This goes back to my original complaint of art and science. I was never told during the interview process that I would teach Art or Science. I wouldn't consider that a big deal at all, except for the fact that I was constantly berated for my students' art not being "perfect." These kids are 6!! (in Korean years) Their art cannot be "perfect" unless you do it for them- and that's exactly what they expect you to do. Brandon wasn't in all the meetings I had where I was scolded for sending home unperfect art. This happened several times, I was told I was too stupid to figure it out. I figured it out just fine, I just didn't feel like being so blatantly dishonest. One particular time, my Korean teacher took about 5 of the 12 art projects and threw them away, she then had another student draw the art for them, because I wouldn't do it (I'm pretty sure it was one student, as all the people in the pictures looked the same). She hung these art projects on the wall for their parents to see. The next day, one of the kids almost started crying, he said "I didn't draw that!" You know what, maybe their art was kinda ugly, but they're just little children, and at least it was THEIRS. The bosses wanted you to do their art for them so they could show off to the parents- "look how great our teachers are at teaching art! Pay us for another semester!" This is exactly what drove me nuts about this place. Yes, it is a business, but I don't think the pursuit of money justifies lying.

Also, he mentions "cleaning up my mess." Let I remind you that I was fired with no notice. I had everything organized my way. If I had been terminated with adequate notice, I could have shown my replacement where things were and how I did it.

6) Actually, the lying I mentioned had more to do with #5.

7) 2.1 million won is actually a mediocre wage, based on what I've seen. They'll also wait until the 10th of the next month to pay you (after the banks have closed, so essentially it's the 11th). This is poor by standards I've seen- new teachers, insist your contract state you be paid by the 5th at the latest. Yes, you only have to come in on 2 Saturdays for PT conferences, but they'll give you super short notice of it. Screw you if you have a non-refundable trip planned on your days off, booked well in advance. They notified us 2 weeks in advance of 2 possible dates for conferences. At that time, I told them about my trip, and asked if I could have mine on the second day they were considering. They lied and said they weren't considering that date after all, and it was too late to do anything about it. I complained that it wasn't adequate notice, the response I got was that some passing comment was made about conferences 4 months earlier (that no one remembers, and may have been before I arrived), and that counted as notice. This wasn't a notice for a particular date either, it was a notice that PT conferences were in June. Apparently, I was supposed to clear my calendar for the entire month of June, based on some mention of something 4 months earlier, and never repeated until 2 weeks prior. Does this sound fair or reasonable to anyone?

I'm glad he mentioned the graduation ceremony. I completely forgot to include it. That's another cluster f$#% you'll have to deal with. A couple of 20 minute skits; complete with choreographed dances, speeches, memorized songs, elaborate sets and costumes, which takes months and months of preparation; and like art, has to be PERFECT... oi... I arrived a week before the graduation ceremony, everyone seemed frazzled, stressed, and ready to kill themselves.. Just another thing to consider...

8) Brandon, if you're upset about the "abuse of LCI," then the fault lies with LCI. If I didn't have a reason to be upset, I wouldn't be posting on these sites. If hagwon owners don't want their name tarnished, then they shouldn't give people a reason to. Let's put responsibility where it belongs. LCI had a bad image around town among foreign teachers, and that was before I ever got there (is that why we were discouraged from socializing with other foreigners? Told they were all weird, and to be avoided?) I really hate the blame the victim mentality: "because this bad thing happened to you, it's obviously your fault.." Again, how are you going to justify the way I was assaulted and locked out of my apartment? By saying I was a bad teacher? In one of my posts, I mention how every time a teacher left, they were villified by the remainers as though they were Hitler. Brandon's response by attacking me and and my skills instead of addressing my points just proves this. I have Korean family, and this wasn't my first time in Korea, so it wasn't a problem with me not being able to deal with the culture. The "cultural sensitivity" thing is just a trick to guilt you into acceping poor treatment and conditions.

If you believe Brandon, and you think that he's right and I'm just bitter and out to "get them," then by all means, accept the job and see for yourself. They're desperate for teachers these days...There are things he can't argue, though: there are plenty other schools that will offer more pay, fewer hours, more vacaton time, better apartments and a better city, less deceiving contracts, and respect. Why don't you do a search and look for yourself? There are thousands of job postings for Korea. In my time travelling Korea, I NEVER met one person who worked a longer work day than I did. They always made the same wage, if not more, than I did. Search for jobs, compare them, and make your own decision.

One more thing: it seems like a lot of the LCI chains are run the same. There are blacklists of LCI schools all over the internet. Here's just one, for example- change the names and the dates, and you have an almost carbon copy of the Gwangju branch:

http://asherblack.com/jung/

LCI KIDS CLUB GWANGJU

I am writing in a direct response to Js posting that can be found on this website and many others. If you would like to see what J posted I invite you to go to take a look for yourself at
http://www.hagwonchecklist.com/hagwons/index.php

Here is a list of things that I would to share with those of you who are still with me.

1. J was bad at his job. J was given several chances to improve his performance in and out of the classroom. He didnt.

2. The working environment at LCI is one of the best I have encountered. There is a lot of working to be done, but also socializing when you have the time. The boss is more than wiling to sit down and chat about anything school related or not. Having our boss take an active interest in our lives has been quite refreshing those who choose to sit down and chat. Unfortunately, J did not take advantage of this.

3. J also claimed we are divided into cliques, backstabbers, snitchers, and petty drama queens. Unfortunately, J failed to mention that he was guiltier of being this than anybody. Like any other office we have to work together to get everything done. J consistently ignored fellow teachers and created more work for himself and others. So I agree with J that people did become a little irritated and cliquish when he was here because he didnt do anything.

4. In the office there are a whole range of activities people do. I play ice hockey. Two others do Korea martial arts. Another likes to do marathons. One is in a band. Js activity was traveling, and he was good at it. There are also several people in the office that speak a little Korean they are more than willing to help others learn. When you first come to Korea it can be a bewildering experience, and familiar western activities (like the ones I just mentioned) are not are not easy to come by. This is why the bosses usually ask some of the more experienced teachers to show new teachers around. Because we are working so closely together we have to get to know each other. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesnt. Unfortunately, for J it didnt.

5. Work can be trying at times, but there have been measures to make our lives easier by having weekly art and science meetings. Attending these meetings is mandatory, but why you would want to miss one is beyond me (sometimes kindergarten art and science can be a little tricky). J was never too keen on these meetings, thus making his life and his Korean teachers life a lot harder. We are still cleaning up Js mess. We also have a Korean teacher assigned to each of the kindergarten classes. It is their job to assist us and take care of some of the more mundane tasks that we cant do like talk to the parents, preparing art, etc. However, J took it upon himself to do nothing, but use and abuse the girl who was assigned to his class. Since Js departure she has been much happier. J could have learned to do his job correctly if he had listened during the 7 day training program we have at the school. Unfortunately, he didnt.

6. J also pointed out that we are told to lie to the parents of the children we teach. J is referring to the weekly and monthly evaluations we do for both the kindergarten and afternoon elementary classes. These evaluations have evolved over the past few years and are now in the form of a weekly sentence or two we write down for our kindergarten kids, and a more formal monthly evaluation we write for our older students. Unfortunately, J failed to understand that this is a private institution that depends on students returning. I have been here for almost two and a half years and have yet to see our bosses sacrifice the education of our students in order to make more money. For those of you who have worked in Korea before you will understand this in not how the average boss runs his business. J will say I am a liar. When Jack would say; Your kid cannot speak English and fails to listen to me when I am talking, I would say; Your child is still learning the vocabulary and does very well when he is paying attention. Both mean the same thing, but you dont have to be a jerk to make yourself understood. Unfortunately, J didnt understand this concept.

7. One thing J failed to acknowledge is how we are compensated for the work we do because its a very positive aspect of this school. The starting salary is 2.17 million won, which is really good! WE ARE ONLY REQUIRED TO COME INTO WORK ON THREE SATURDAYS DURING THE ENTIRE YEAR! Those three Saturdays include two parent teacher conferences and a graduation for the kindergarten. Unfortunately, J didnt realize he was getting kindly rewarded for doing next to nothing.

8. Thank you for reading this post. I am fed up with all the negative things people say about the schools where they have worked. I have heard horror stories and seen some good friends of mine go through the most heinous things at other schools. I would like to say that I work for a boss I respect and am proud to tell people about the school I work for. I wont lie and say that everything about this school is sugar coated, but I will say that we have a good working environment that did not warrant the abuse issued by the worst employee it has seen since it opened 2002.