SCHOOLS AND RECRUITERS REVIEWS
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#1 Parent Noemie - 2008-07-30
Re: BSK / Pacican - Shanghai, China

Hi, this message is for Brent.

I just wanted to say that your reply to the first "attack" was very well said and easily understood. I was nothing like most rants you find these days on the net.

I also wanted to see if we could discuss the BSK/ PACICAN schools. I have been offered what seems to be a very generous offer from them and would like to see if you could help me make a more educated decision.

Thanks so much!

Nomie

#2 Parent Brent; Mosey - 2008-07-24
Re: BSK / Pacican - Shanghai, China

*** I am not sure why I get messages in my mailbox that say a message has been posted, and when I try to go, it's not there. ***

I have received a second message. I will post it and address it.

From CHOATLE

"Saying your not a bragger while at the same time noting all your awards and pretigious achievements is disingenuous, and makes you a bragger big time.

As for a degree, whoopy, degrees don't make smart people, I've met too many dumb people with degrees, so I know better. By the way, how does having a degree make you a professional teacher?

You said you have never even had ten teachers in all the time that you have been open, yet later you go on to say you've had 70 teachers working for you this year. Hmm, me thinks someone doesn't monitor their own words.

23 hours a week is not a large workload? LOL, sounds like quite a bit to me. You also said you do not inclue breaks. Funny, those 40 hour a week jobs do, in which a lot of your time is break time, i.e sitting on your ass in an office. We call those office hours, which it sounds like you have some of. 3.5 times what a regular Chinese teacher makes for 23 actual hours a week? You must be kidding, that's a joke of a salary.

How do emails to you attacking your post or your school prove the person who initially wrote the posts about your school has no integrity?

Sorry, but I don't see the connection at all. Bottom line, sounds like a crap job to me as far as pay goes, plenty of hours to, certainly not my cup of tea. I can't say how they treat foreigners, maybe in a wonderful manner, who knows. I do get the sense your one of the stoic brown nosers I spoke of in my 27 questions, who will do and say anything fro their employer, though I could be wrong.

Over all there are some simple yet obvious contradictions in your post, as well as some shoddy reasoning and poor use of logic. I can not speak about anything except what you have said about your school, but it sounds to me like a fair amount of hours for rather low pay.

Maybe they are a great place to work, but I wouldn't be interested, not with those hours and that pay. "

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REPLY

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Hi Choatle

First of all; wow! What a message. Felt like I was in front of the firing squad there.

Let me see if I can address this without being picked apart again.

First and foremost. I am in the middle of complete chaos at home in Canada right now. My vacation entails selling a house I've lived in most of my life, as well as deciding what to do with all the possessions. The reason I mention this is for this reason.

You are replying to my first message. I thought I clicked preview but I clicked submit. Later, I deleted it and updated it. But, thanks for the crucifixion, none the less :)

1. You're right. As I stated in my last post, that was a definate error on my part. I was simply being defensive and human. I should not have mentioned that, but what would your response be to someone posting publically that anyone with this company is not a real teacher? I would appreciate your advice on this. Thanks.

2. Some of the worst teachers I have met were over educated. But, I do take some offence to your comment about the degree. People with degrees (especially when it's a degree in field of education) have made a commitment to their field.

3. In my revision, I stated that the company has never been reduced to ten teachers, as was indicated in the original post.

4. 23 hours a week. You are right. I did not explain that well. I am not a professional writer, and made an error there, even in my revision. The message I was trying to convey (and if you actually read through that part without jumping the gun, I'm sure you would have understood) was that it's not really 23 hours. After breaks and such, it's more like ... well ... let's work the math.

I work 2 X 30 minute classes in the early afternoon. So that's 1 hour. I work 3 X 30 minute classes in the late afternoon. So that's another 90 minutes. That's 2 hours and 30 minutes a day. Multiply that by 5 days and you have 12 hours and 30 minutes. Add my Thursday classes and you have another 2 hours.

14 hours and 30 minutes a week.

5. The key word is attacking. You are guilty of it as well. I'm sure you're going to find several ways to attack me on this statement alone, so I'll leave it at that. I am not always sucessful, but I always try to deal with a situation in the least volatile way. (I know the person that made the accusations... trust me, if I wanted to attack, I could.)

6. Brown nosing. If that's what you want to call it. I was not asked to do this. It's been going on every year for the last four years (the first year we were too small and tight knit.) It was really the comment that "real teachers don't work here," that set me off. And if you'd like, I can tell you some of the employers I have come across in China to stay away from. I have no vested interest in the company, other than they've treated me well, and I think I've made a difference for my students (children).

I appreciate your comments, no matter how hostile they have been interpreted. I am sure that you are a fine educator.

Yes, there were mistakes in my original. It's chaos here, and hard to concentrate. I apologize for any confusion.

Take care

Brent

#3 Parent Brent Mosey - 2008-07-24
Message from Silverboy

I received a message saying that Silverboy posted a reply, but it doesn't show the message on the site. However, I believe the reason is that I made some changes to the original post and it got lost, so I'll post it here.

From Silverboy

"You may or may not be telling the truth. I do not know about BSK, so I will not pass judgement on it yet. However, just because you have a degree and have taught in a few countries does not make you a "professional" teacher. If you have so much experience then why are you working for a training centre? There are plenty of universities in Shanghai where you could work. One other point I would like to make: most TC's expect their teachers to follow a specific method or formula. And in my experience, these teaching methods are usually ineffective. If teachers at BSK follow a specific formula, it means they are not creative or serious teachers as far as I am concerned. A decent school will give a teacher lots of flexibility in regard to how they construct their lesson plans.

That is one thing I really like about the uni I am currently employed at, the fact that I can develop lesson plans in accordance with the real and actual needs of my different classes of students. This is in contrast to the ridiculous , "one size fits all" mentality that that training centres follow. The TC is all about quantity, not quality. I will wait to hear from others who have have worked at this place before I form an opinion about it. "

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My Reply

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Silverboy

First of all, you sound like a very competent teacher, and I thank you for the reply.

I think I need to revise. I am a child educator. I believe that if I was asked to teach a university class, it would be the same as asking me to teach French. I know the basics, but I don't believe I would be able to do a quality job.

BSK focuses on primary students. The goal is to offer a supplement (or alternative) to the Chinese method of teaching an introduction to English.

We are not a training centre, nor a placement agency. We simply offer parents a supplemental English course for their children. Our attempt is to teach Chinese children the aquisition of English, rather than the standard memorization of English.

By all means, I could be telling the truth or lying about my statement "I am a professional teacher". However, it is, for the most part, redundant to what I was posting. Looking back, I probably shouldn't have even commented on that.

I was simply being defensive to the fact that he claimed "real teachers don't work for BSK".

The other thing I wanted to mention was money. As terrible as this sounds, it is a factor in where I decide to work. I know that most universities don't pay very well.

Lastly. We're not a training centre, as I stated. But don't completely discount the training centres. Wall Street English is a training centre in business for 35 years. And they are wonderful, in my opinion. I was fortunate enough to be given a tour at one time, and was quite impressed.

We all have our specialities, and we all provide benefits to the Chinese students. I certainly appreciate what any university teacher is doing, as I know how difficult that job can be. I have to admit, I don't believe I am qualified to teach university, especially as I have a hard time relating to adults as students.

To each their own.

My message was simply to put an end to the fiction that has been posted by people that simply can't handle teaching and can't handle China... and in some cases, by people that just can't handle life in general.

Here's an example. One of our coordinators asked a teacher how to pronounce tomato. Is it "Ay" or "Aw". The teacher was from North America, so he said "Ay". She asked why she had heard "Aw" before, and he explained that it was British english. This confused our coordinator (their job is simply to translate and mediate between the school and the teacher when necessary, scheduling, and making sure the teacher knows where the school is).

That was it, that was the conversation. Next thing, I read on the internet about "some stupid TA told me... ME! A native English Speaker that I am pronouncing English words wrong!"

Some people are just unable to deal with life. Making mountains out of molehills.

Anyways, I'm not trying to discredit anyone here, or anywhere. If you were to ask me what the biggest problem with BSK is, it would be the hiring program. We tend to get a small percentage of people who are simply volatile and unable to cope with China, teaching, or just being away from home. But how can you fix that? Most of the time, those are the people with the flashiest portfolio.

Good luck, and thanks for the response.

Brent Mosey - 2008-07-24
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