Well said Turino!
How are you these days? I hope you haven't been a victim of friendly-fire from crocodiles, or even worse exiled yourself in Germany with The Lawyer/Bavarian. The beer there is not good, all too cold and bristling with chemicals. You can't freeze real ale because it kills the natural flavours of the hops and malt. You can't beat a few pints of Youngs followed by a short, a nice Scotch whisky, or Jamesons whiskey if you're in the mood. Hope haven't got whisky or whiskey arse about face since last night I had to settle for evil baijiu.

You've been in china for a long time, as you claim. Yet you say every person who "runs" from a contract is someone who likes running back to their mommies because they couldn't "cut the mustard". Well I'll tell ya loyal SS guards "cut the mustard" for Hitler until the fall of Berlin and may have continued fighting even after Hitler himself committed suicide. Loyal Red Guards during the 1966-1976 chinese cultural revolution "cut the mustard" and helped destroy most of the tradition and culture of china.

It's just soooooo great to see people like you "cut the mustard" continually come here and show everyone who you really are. The lack of compassion for others DOES make you a perfect fit to work in china for a very long time.

In the meantime, those of us who prefer to be treated like human beings will gladly keep our distances from the likes of you.

What on earth do you mean "the fine points on a contract"- I suspect you mean "the small print" because "fine" is probably what it most certainly is not. "The small print" always means, anywhere in the world, the information that it's hoped will not be read. You cannot design a contract with 'small print' designed to not attract attention and then complain because others complain they did not notice it. Not many Newbie FT's believe in a million years when they see the big print which says 20 hours a week that they will actually work for 40. Why would they believe that, almost all of us FT's are not proper teachers, we have not spent years in Teacher Training College, we come for a good time-lots of travelling, kissy kissy with Chinese assistant teacher---and her Mum if she's okayish.

Forty bloody hours hidden in fine print cuts no ice for cool young dude from Pennsylvania- why should it, he can barely read the big print.

What does it take in order to find people who know what they are talking about in regards to EF schools. It seems clear that all the negative comments I've read about EF are from people who clearly have never read the fine print on a contract. The working hours in a contract are 40(not teaching hours). In what world have you ever had it so hard that you can't work a 40 hour work week. If you want to stay in your own country and pay high taxes along with expensive prices please do us a favour and don't come here. I'm tried of teachers who come here and do nothing but complain then break their contracts and run home to mommy. grow up and learn some responsibility. I've been here for 9 going on 10 years. Love everything about teaching here and despise uneducated whiners who can't cut the mustard.

Yeah , you could be right but then again , this being China

Yes, because it is China, I suspect there are rats in your apartment- because it is always crappy, sub-standard accomodation that EF provides.

You admitted yourself that the reputation of EF in China is not a good one. Now, have a guess, why!

Chris, I am with you. Some EFs have pro contracts (copied from the foreign company), and some even keep their words. What you don't realize is that these contracts are often to facilitate the money laundering of locals. Then, believe it or not, some locals have got to the business in order to control the market/education in the country. Sure none of your business when you get paid, is it?
Cheers and beers to EF Changchun that I know so little about, but they spin Shanghai's headquarters, don't they?

Oh , and one more thing : The local staff here are kind and have all gone out of their way to help the foreigners even when the foreigners have been precocious and lazy . Before I came here to EF Changchun I read the comments on this site and was worried about whether or not I was going to get screwed . I decided to take the chance anyway because other people took the time to counter some of the claims made about this school . Not only were the claims misleading but some of them were plainly slander . Newbies SHOULD come to this school because they'll get exactly what they were promised and they will be given the help they need to get acquainted with China . If people such as EF Hater want to say nasty things about a particular school well , I can't stop them but I consider it something of a responsibility to at least only talk about places they actually know something about through first-hand experience . If EF Hater ever worked here and couldn't stand the "work" or felt unappreciated then I can only assume that things have changed substantially from whenever that might have been or he/she was fired for being lazy and incompetent (as so often happens with foreigners who figure they'll make some easy cash while drinking themselves into oblivion while "visiting" China) If you can't handle 40 hours a week (which is about 30 percent more than I ever work) and all of maybe 20 hours actually teaching in the classroom then I submit to you that you have no clue what it's like to actually work a 40 hour week in the West . No rent , low bills , cost of living is nothing compared to Canada (my country) and you're treated a hell of a lot better than you'd ever be back home ... your standard of living here is certainly higher as well your quality of life . No "issues" with drugs or drink and all you've got to do is put in a couple of days worth of actual teaching ... this is hardly any reason to badmouth a school . If that's anybody's idea of too much then seriously , that person needs to spend a couple of decades hauling garbage , cooking , or working the night shift at some warehouse .

In other words , badmouth some other place . This particular franchise is perfectly good and run above-board . I can't speak for the others anywhere else so , unlike EF Hater , I'm not going to . Maybe they are crap but this one certainly isn't .

I am sure that after your unfounded praise of crappy EF in Changchun, all newbies will flock to this wonderful place.

How about the rats in your apartment they have given you? Are they there for you to eat?...LOL

It's obvious you're a newbie on the board.Turnoi is no typo.He's the poster who convinced me not to desert the board after I had initially got personal abuse from the sharks on here.So I changed my pseudonym to one similar to his as a sign of my thanks to him for his encouragement.
Thanks for expanding on 'hours worked' at EF Changchun.The situation re teaching hours or teaching periods is just as I had expected.In fact,20 clock hours or hours of teaching equates to 26 or 27 teaching hours at 45 minutes/teaching hour.In the past,a wily prospective Chinese employer tried to con me with that.The extra 6 or 7 lessons/week makes one hell of a difference to one's workload in my view.Personally,I'd reject any teaching post in China involving more than 22 teaching periods/week,and I wouldn't accept a post that required me to make up missed classes due to public/school holidays either.What's more,I'd never look for a job on the side.One job is enough for me!
Generally speaking,for a variety of reasons it's better to work direct for Chinese schools or colleges within the public sector than for agents or private sector employers.

Thanks all the same for posting your kind words. I don't expect any other posters on this board to do likewise. In contrast, many regular posters delight in attacking their fellow posters and what they have stated. There have even been instances of posters who have divulged personal information about themselves seeing it manipulated subsequently to launch new personal attacks against them.
I'm of the opinion it's best to remain anonymous and not instigate debates on controversial issues. There are posters whose views you won't be able to change, no matter what you post. I've already said my piece re EF Changchun. It has obviously not gone down well with the skeptics among us. No matter, I care not if they disagree.
In spite of the blanket attacks on training centers, the good ones never have any difficulty attracting foreign teachers. That's an indisputable fact!

By the way, I notice below that I got a message from someone called Turnoi, is this a typo or somebody different?

Hi,

Your assumption that teaching EFL for 40 hours a week can be compared to a normal 40 hour job is way off base.

Yeah, I mustn't have made myself clear in my post but the school only asks for approx 22 contact hours per week, maybe 24 in the 5 months of intensive period but many teachers were not on a full schedule. The total time they recommend you work is 40 hours which is ample time to prepare and teach lessons and include all of the other duties of a teacher.

How can one take you seriously when it's obvious that you don't know the difference between ESL and EFL?

You are 100% accurate in saying I never knew the difference between ESL and EFL, frankly I thought they referred to the same thing and to be honest it has never been an issue for me. I don't think finding this one error proves that I am completely wrong to give my opinion about a place where I worked.

I would bet that EF Changchun has paid you to put those skills to use by writing a glowing report about them.

I would like to think that I have some morals left so no, I would never write something like that for money. If they want to give me some money as gratitude I'd be delighted but I think I've attracted more bad attention than good.

I think you've got a long row to hoe if you're going to convince anyone in this forum

I'm not writing any of this to convince people on this forum. The people here have their own opinions formed from their own experiences. I'm writing this in case there are new teachers looking for work who are scared by all the negativity. All I can say to them is that I am happy to answer any questions about my experiences at EF Changchun (and only Changchun, as I cannot speak for any other EF school). If anyone wants to contact me then just look up my email above and email me.

As far as I'm concerned EF Changchun are certainly not the best school to work for in China but they do not deserve to be cast in among the Tianshuos who literally abuse the system. Companies like Tianshuo apparently break contract and really screw people. In my experience EF Changchun (again, only that school, and no other EF) works according to the contract that they send out.

Owen

Owen,just to put things into perspective re professional teachers and hours worked where I come from,ie the UK,let me say that high school teachers teach 26 or so teaching periods a week.Each teaching period is of 35 or 40 or 45 minutes' duration depending on the school taught at.Though the general public think teachers don't work hard, teachers themselves will tell you that teaching,if done well,is mentally tiring.Lesson-Planning,making and marking tests/exams,attending parents' evenings,and running an extracurricular club or refereeing a sports match at weekends are additional requirements expected of teachers.
Even though Chinese students tend to show more respect to teachers than their foreign conterparts do,I reckon 40 teaching periods a week is excessive,let alone 40 clock hours.Maybe you don't know that public colleges and universities here only ask their FT's to teach 16 teaching periods/week on average,while the teaching workload at middle schools is around 20 teaching periods a week.
But some teachers who are workaholics think 40 hours,clock or otherwise,represents a fair workload. You should realise they're very much in the minority.In contrast,Chinese teachers only teach around 14 teaching periods a week at most.China doesn't need the introduction of sweat shop hours into its EFL industry in my opinion.

I worked for EF Changchun for more than three years and they provided everything promised according to the contract. The teachers do work many hours but it is only difficult if you are one of those people who consider a 40-hour week (i.e. normal working week) to be excessive. In my time there I found that whenever a teacher had a serious problem with the school, the truth of the matter was that the teacher in question was either lazy, incompetent, greedy or a combination of all three. The management were always reasonable with any teacher who did their work and by that I don't mean just turning up for lessons, I mean spending time on preparations and actually taking an interest in the education of students.

The ESL industry is littered with incompetent teachers and evil schools. There are also many excellent teachers and schools. I don't envy the schools who have to put up with new teachers who arrive without a clue and expect everything to be done for them just as I don't envy those teachers who arrive in bad schools.

I don't work for EF anymore, in fact I'm not even a teacher anymore but I am writing this because I know the history of that school over the last 4 years and I wasn't aware of a single unjustified case of a teacher being asked to leave.

I would recommend anybody looking for a job in China who is interested in developing their teaching skills to work there as they have the best facilities, experienced staff and a wide range of students.