Kevin
- 2009-06-13
Hey look everyone! It's our very own "StephaineB" over at Raoul's China Saloon (only now he's going under the "pork dumpling" moniker. Guess the whole French farce grew tiring!):
Here's the link:
http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=326.msg72539#msg72539
Dear Friends,This school is decidedly an avoid-at-all costs. I am very, very, very inclined to accept everything that has been written here at face value, except for the postings of one manager of this school, whose post should be treated with the utmost circumspection. Later in the summer I will set out all of the details in their full, horrific glory.
For the meantime, just avoid it. There are many other jobs to be had in China.
PorkDumpling
Harbin
Please note the syntax is exactly the same as our own beloved StephanieB. It will be interesting if he tries to still say he is a French female. It will also be interesting to see how many more new, outrageous stories he can come up with or maybe just repost what he has put here with some new spins and exaggerations on it. Boy, Singapore, Suzhou, Shanghai, the South of France, Harbin . . . this guy gets around!
NameDeleted
- 2009-06-13
I keep trying to email you for all the wonderfully gory details but your email address still doesn't work.
stephanieb
- 2009-05-26
All of the Alex's posts are just "derisoire" as we say in French.
The subject of this thread is Suzhou Foreign Language School, and one of the assistant managers therein.
They or he have been unable to answer any of the charges made against them and instead have :
1. Fraudulently used misappropriated email addresses and have attached other person's signature (a serious mistake by any means). They were caught by the moderator of this board;
2. Inappropriately resorted to attack dog attacks and have attempted to divert the thread to persons or objects having nothing to do with this thread. In fact, Alex on this thread, and Kev7161, and at least two other mysterious posters are probably one in the same attack dog; and
3. Consistently falsely raised gender issues, engaged in exceptionally crude personal attacks against persons not present on this thread, and otherwise have attempted to do everything possible to divert this thread from it's purpose, which is
to warn anyone and everyone to avoid this school.
4. For the record, this is exactly how they treated me last year when I was in the school -- attack and destroy, attack and destroy, attack and destroy.
De bien petits gens d'esprit...
Turino
- 2009-05-26
No,not that Alex,thank goodness!He must be a headcase and a half,judging by what you have posted about him.
In fact,the Alex I was talking about used to teach in Yuncheng.He neither liked the city itself nor the company he was employed by there.
Alex
- 2009-05-26
Does the Alex you refer to enjoy spreading rumours?
If he had nothing to tell would he seem to just make it up?
Does the Alex you refer to have a tendency to slap himself about the head for no apparent reason?
Does he make snide comments about other's appearance?
Does he boast about his New York temper and how he put the staff into their place?
Does he often forget to take his medication?
Does he walk like a fairy-penguin?
If you answered yes to these, then the Alex you are looking for can be found at the very top of this thread - and no doubt at the very bottom.
Turino
- 2009-05-23
And I can picture you experiencing the real China some years ago in the vicinity of a certain salt lake of Shanxi.Am I right or am I right?Welcome back to the fold,Alex!Long time no post,eh?
Alex
- 2009-05-23
Yes of course - you're a French lady. I can picture you sitting behind the computer in your beany, silk boxers and bright red lipstick. And don't you let any of those crazy "sane" people tell you any different.
stephanieb
- 2009-05-22
Truly the monster in the flesh has surfaced.
Sorry to disappoint you..but I am indeed a female and I feel no need to defend myself against your rantings and ravings.
If anyone wishes to know more, please email me and I will supply with all the details that you require.
Again, the gates of hell. Avoid it.
kevin
- 2009-05-21
Hi all,
My name is Kevin and I have worked at Suzhou Foreign Language School for four years to date. I (and several other happy teachers) have signed on for another year commencing July 1st.
Let me tell you a little something, then please go back and re-read the original posting again. "StephanieB" is actually a New York born and bred MAN in his late 50s. He came to our school in late January, 2008 to take over my class of 1st graders. I had to move up to the 4th grade to replace a teacher who left due to health problems. We asked him if he could take the 4th grade and his eyes got as big as saucers (see, in 4th grade, we/I teach the kids all the language arts plus advanced mathematics, Science, computers, etc.). He wasn't about to touch that job with a 10-ft. pole!
After about 3 weeks into the job, he decided he had had enough of school leaders (including myself, the assistant director of our department) observing him from time to time and he started ranting - - he didn't stop ranting until he suddenly and abruptly quit last Friday, May 15th, 2008. He was originally upset that a "Senior teacher" such as himself would be under such scrutiny (which is actually very common with all new teachers, sorry). From then on, he lost his temper, lost his cool, lost his composure with about every little thing he could find.
I guarantee you that NOTHING he says in his post is even remotely true. Believe what you will but it's a matter of "he said/he said" in this case. I'm not even going to bother with nit-picking apart his post detail by detail, that would be futile (if you knew him, you would know he ALWAYS gets the last word!). What I will say is that he is using a name of a former "Stefanie" who worked for our school long before he came along. Her English skills were, you know, okay considering she had lived much of her life in France (French and American parents) and, not to insult her, could no way, no how use the English syntax that this man is using.
Will I say SFLS is a perfect, flawless school? Of course not - if you can show me one in China or pretty much any country then I'll be knocking on their door next year! This man is posting all over the place with various versions of the same story. They get more and more incredible as each one is posted. I'm happy to answer any questions you have if you'd like to email me: kev7161@hotmail.com Thanks for taking the time to read my rebuttal.
Turino
- 2009-05-20
Your post is excellent in its content.I can personally equate with what you say from my own experience as an FT here since 1994.Year by year I have become lazier and lazier.Perhaps I am now so lazy that I would be unfit for employment in the teaching profession anywhere in the West.That said,I've noticed that,just like me,many FTs here tend to become wily,just like many of their Chinese colleagues,but very quickly.FT's have discovered that to be seen to be doing,rather than to strive to do well is the key to an easy life - they regurgitate the same lesson 16 -20 times each week,then prepare a new one,and do likewise week ater week.As their students and their fellow Chinese teachers of English usually have very low levels of English,it's easy for FT's to coast along doing as little as possible in the classroom teaching spoken English in any way they like while being respected.It's just like being your own boss,and better than teaching written English because you've no marking to do.Definitely a well-paid sinecure allowing one to teach here and there throughout China for 9 months at a time.And just like their Chinese colleagues,many FT's never work for nought.If some students who like studying English very much wish to visit the FT's apartment in his (or her) free time,the louwai just says sorry,claiming to be very busy,which in fact is a lie.Can you really blame louwai for taking advantage of the fact that teaching English in China can be done in an effortless and stress-free way,especially in the underdeveloped places,of which there are many?Even if an FT wished to do a hard day's work,thus deserving his(or her) salary,it wouldn't be productive - there are usually 70+ students being taught oral English/class,far too many at one time for 40 minutes/week to make much difference!Northern China has served me well,in fact so well that I'd never risk teaching in the south,or in another foreign country,for fear of being disappointed!
eflfree
- 2009-05-20
"In a word,as Turnoi has previously posted,EFL in China is a grey area!"
Turino
"EFL in China is a big show and they will make you to act like a clown, and it is not about education! Just a lot of crap for the filthy sake of money-making alone!"
Turnoi
It would seem that Turnoi has changed his mind - as have I. I spent years here giving this business time to prove itself to be professional; however, I've seen a steady decline in demonstrations of excellence and fair play. I do, though, appreciate your neutrality, Turino. And I suspect that the amount of FTs, on a percentage basis, may be lower than I imagine. Nevertheless, a small percentage of a big number is still too much. No, let me amend that. Even a fraction of a percentage of a big number is still too much when you view it from the perspective that no FT should be allowed to flounder in miserable conditions. Every school, be they private or public, that does not live up to their contractual obligations and/or takes advantage of the good faith of an FT should be held accountable. Since that is rarely the case, the government should step up to the plate and make them accountable. Such schools should also be held accountable for supplying less than adequate English language education, which is the responsibility of both administrations and ill qualified teachers along with teachers who, having seen too much to even care anymore, continue to take payment for just showing up and putting on their clown faces.
Turino
- 2009-05-20
Every such story has two sides.China may not be the best country to teach EFL in.But FT's who've also taught in South Korea have posted on this board that teaching and living in China is MILES BETTER.
Before we make a judgement as to how bad things are for FT's in China,we should listen to the other side of each FT's tale of woe,ie what his(or her) employer has to say.I expect in many instances there will be faults on both sides.
And we should try to put the number of louwai who complain in perspective by trying to estimate that group as a % of the total number of FT's teaching here.You might well find that it's a lower figure than you think!
Another thing that I've noticed is that on occasion an FT has complained bitterly about his(or her)employer only to be contradicted by his(or her) fellow FT's.Maybe that louwai is bad,not the employer.
What's more,louwai teaching here seldom unite when they have common problems with their employers - too many louwai here are grovelling weasels who compete with one another to be their employers' pets,especially ex backpackers who are so grateful they've landed a reasonably well-paid teaching job for the first time in their lives that they are unwilling to rock the boat!
In a word,as Turnoi has previously posted,EFL in China is a grey area!
eflfree
- 2009-05-20
Your well written post caused me to shudder with disbelief even though I've read and heard many similar stories and I'm well aware of all the pitfalls associated with teaching in China. In a recent post I mentioned that things seem to be taking a turn for the worse here. I had hoped for the opposite, but it's just not panning out that way. The sad truth is that most schools will see no need to change their Neanderthal mentality as long as new teachers keep signing contracts. Despite the warnings that are becoming more and more prevalent on the web, it's hard to be optimistic about this problem.
Curiously, in your post, you stated that there have been warnings posted about this school for years; however, you ended up working there anyway. Is that because you didn't check them out until after you started having problems? I would guess that to be the case and, though I'm not faulting you for that, it clearly highlights that such warnings are either falling on deaf ears or that this method of relying on the web to make a difference is fairly inadequate.
Of course there are instances where FTs have resorted to other tactics, such as contacting authorities, writing articles for newspapers and etc. However, it would seem that more drastic measures need to be taken. Now I find myself wondering what those drastic measures should be. Obviously, it's going to have to be something in the way of a concerted effort. A few complaints here and there aren't going to accomplish much. One idea that's been slowing brewing is that one of these websites hosted by someone such as Raoul should step up to the plate and take some serious action such as asking for a petition or a form of some kind to be signed that would then be sent to major newspapers in America and elsewhere. Such a form that clearly outlines the dangers of teaching here could also be sent to colleges and universities - although, who would bear the expense of such a project is beyond me. Nevertheless, something along these lines seems to me to be a sound alternative or at least an adjunct to online postings.
I imagine that if a few major newspapers were to publish an article or a series of articles that bring a certain degree of focus to this problem, the leaders will ultimately have to address it seriously. Private training schools such as this one in Suzhou will have some quick explaining to do if that were the case. Moreover, PSBs and licensing bureaus will be under the magnifying class as well.
As we all are aware, the last thing that China wants is bad publicity - especially when it's true. It's not just bad for business, it's also about national pride. Moreover, the demand for English training is definitely not diminishing. If they were to find it more and more difficult to lure FTs here, especially qualified teachers, then, clearly, they'd have to start asking themselves why that is the case.
But the pressure can't stop there. Our own governments need to make more of an effort to warn their citizens of what could transpire if one were to make the leap to China. I've perused the US State Department website, for example, and found that there are warnings posted there about teaching in China, but few people will actually follow the links to such warnings. It seems that in this "internet age" there is a belief that everyone will utilize the web in terms of its maximum effectiveness, but that is simply not the case. However, if you are an American, you should follow these links from the State Department website:
First, click on "Country Specific Information," then, choose "China."
Second, scroll down to the heading "English Teachers/Secondary School Teachers."
Third, click on "Teaching in China Guide." (There is some interesting and informative information here; however, in my opinion, not enough in the way of warnings, nor enough of an expose as to how serious the problem really is.)
This information is also posted under the heading "English Teachers/Secondary School Teachers:"
To assist the Embassy in providing up-to-date information to prospective teachers, Americans experiencing problems should inform the Embassy by contacting the American Citizens Services Unit at telephone (86) (10) 8531-4000.
How much assistance they actually provide is open to debate. As an American, I'm ashamed to say that I've heard their help doesn't amount to much. I suspect they don't want to rock the economic boat.
Finally, it is important to remember, that many, perhaps most, private schools in China are not legally licensed. If that is the case, it is not legal for foreigners to work there. If you are working for an unlicensed school and have been given a "Z" visa to do so, it is probably because the school has an "under the table" relationship with the local authorities; obviously, that limits your options when you encounter problems.
If you are considering this school, please email me for all of the gory details.
Under no circumstances should any fit, sober, decent, well-educated, sane or otherwise morally-anchored ESL teacher consider this institution.
The level of violence against both the students -- by foreign teacher and the local staff -- is truly horrible and is beyond anything acceptable in Western countries. It is even beyond anything acceptable in China today. In early autumn, 2008, I actually witnessed desks being thrown at children, books being thrown at children, children's pencils flung across the room in anger, pencils being broken and snapped at children and children who were picked up by the collars of their shirts and flung across the room. This is not "hearsay" but things I witnessed when I was "forced" to "observe" the "great master's" classes to learn how to teach. When I tried to say something to the management, I was screamed at incessantly and told to keep my mouth shut as this was the "great master" and it was "his department". Eventually, I broke under the abuse and left.
Additionally, the level of ABUSE AND INTIMIDATION by the excessively overweight, white male managers towards the foreign teachers, and particularly against female teachers, is beyond anything acceptable anywhere, at least in this century. I was screamed at in my classroom repeatedly by the "great master" at a decibel level loud enough to be heard anywhere in the hall outside; I was constantly monitored and forced to undergo their equivalent of "re-education" in order to make me a "good teacher" like the "great master".
The school has pictures of Stalin, Lenin, Marx, Engels, and all of the local great leaders all up-and-down the stairs of the Administration Building, and any school that has a picture of Stalin and Lenin, even in modern China, well, that sets the tone and the mentality of the place...A GULAG, A TRUE GULAG, UNBELIEVABLY A GULAG.
This school has had numerous, numerous bad reviews for YEARS AND YEARS all over the Internet -- on every message aboard available -- from Raoul's Message Board, to Dave's Cafe, to ESL School Watch, etc., etc., and all warn, warn, and warn, and warn of the dangers and abuse that await the unsuspecting foreign teacher.
Turnover is high, even by ESL-Chinese standards, and teachers melt away, disappear, pull runners, get new contracts, return to their home countries all during the course of the year.
One teacher from South America wanted to leave and was told that if he even thought of leaving, he would be arrested and put in jail!
Living conditions -- if they force you to live in the school -- are primitive at best -- a substandard 3 x 4 metre single room, with a mini-kitchen crammed in, and a door that a strung gust of wind can open. If you "elect" to live on the outside, as I did with my friend, the school will "fail" to tell you that it needs to deduct a "security deposit" from your pay for the apartment...and they deduct, and they deduct, and they deduct, and deduct, and deduct..and soon enough you realize that you are victim of yet another scam. When you leave the school, as nearly all do, you can kiss your months of security deposit good-bye. You will never see the money again -- so your pay will have been reduced the equivalent of anywhere from 20-30% a month, if not more for absolute naught to you.
They have all kinds of scams going here -- after I left, they hired a teacher to replace me and promised her my salary. Well, month-after-month, they paid her a very reduced salary, even though she had a contract with the correct amount on it, because she was a "junior" teacher and was "in training". When they finally paid her the full amount, it was the next-to-last month of her contract.
It's a revolving door-kind-of-a-GULAG. If you want the WORST experience of your life in China, then go to work in this school. I am more than glad to send you the email addresss of other teachers in the past 2 years who have had the same experience as I have had because the school always love to counter with "oh, it was only one teacher".