HireEd
- 2009-06-18
I worked briefly for Nanjing University of Science and Technology, and I also had a terrible, unprofessional experience there. AVOID -- the worst! Dean charges BIG extra fees from parents whose lazy children cannot be accepted to the university legitimally, pockets all of the profits for herself (FT is receiving standard public 4000RMB public university salary -- allthough they are actually involved in private business), and then hands you HUGE classes of unproductive, apthetic students who have been pre-guaranteed passing grades.
Turino
- 2009-06-14
By:Burina
Date: 12 June 2009 In Response To: Re: SilverBoy (Turino)
If some overseas teachers havent done their homework then they should take responsibility for their lack of effort and thought.
What you have posted is the easy way out of a dishonest scenario for a disreputable (Chinese) employer, and that kind of louwai is exactly the kind of misinformed louwai that said ditrctors here feed on.
Glad to see that you put all the blame on said louwai(sic).I reckon you've been here too long,thereby transformimg your character,or maybe it wasn't so good before you arrived!Thanks anyway for your contribution - the meaning is clear,those who are naive deserve to be cheated.Great culture,eh?Stay awhile - it's your cup o' tea here,isn't it?
Turino
- 2009-06-13
My argument is and always has been that the standard government contract is fair to both FT's and to their employers.Most if not all FT's working in China at state schools are offered said contract.But some other contracts offered here are less fair to FT's in the sense that they include clauses such as there is a probationary period of x days,or y% of the students must like your lessons,or if z parents complain,your contract can be terminated.
As I'm used to signing standard government contracts,I would not sign any other contract with such clauses that would allow me to be dismissed more easily,unless I couldn't get a job offering me the standard government contract.I'd have thought the above is common sense and well-known to most FT's.But clearly it isn't.
As for that private school in Suzhou,alarm bells would ring with me and many other FT's here when reading their contract.And that has been pointed out!Of course,FT's who have worked there or are now employed there complaining about the school is another aspect for consideration,which seems to have been proved beyond doubt by the number of complainants - read what Silverboy has to say and Raoul!
I advise all would-be FT's not to seek posts at private schools or training centres.Stick to state schools with standard government contracts.At the same time I realise that not every budding FT can make that choice,but if he can,I advise him to do so.
Theo
- 2009-06-13
I was in China until 2008, and yes, it kept changing, but rarely improving in terms of the ESL business. Stop complaining? The ONLY way things will get better for FTs, Chinses staff, and ESL students is BY complaining -- and DOING!
I should "share" teaching materials I developed (without help from anyone) with folks like you? Get real!
Burina
- 2009-06-13
If some overseas teachers havent done their homework then they should take responsibility for their lack of effort and thought.
There seems to be a change of argument now, when you argue most overseas teachers are happy with their contract.
Burino
Jerome
- 2009-06-13
I, too, have been here since 2003 and my background in America is similar to yours. Although your post began by stating that mine was well intentioned but wrong, your post actually highlight my argument, which, simply stated, is that I question the logic of focusing only on the schools and their corrupt ways and their lack of professionalism when it is obvious that misplaced FTs contribute to the problem. Moreover, I have seen that many schools, be they universities or training centers, would rather replace experienced and qualified FTs such as yourself with inexperienced and unqualified FTs who, because of having their own agendas, will be less likely to rock the boat. For such "teachers" it's more about hanging on to that precious visa than it is doing their best to provide quality English training.
Again, I don't disregard the fact that the Chinese education system needs a serious overhaul. Like you, I've seen enough to make me wonder how most schools, of any kind, can call themselves centers of education; however, if you're going to effectively fix anything, you can't just change the nuts and bolts - you've got to dig a little deeper. Examining hiring and rehiring practices will help, but, no, I don't think of that as the final solution. Just trying to keep things balanced, and put this whole question of professionalism into a clearer light.
Theo
- 2009-06-13
Well-intentioned perhaps, but sorry, the entire premise of your argument is simply wrong. Have you actually taught English in China or Korea?
When I ventured to China in 2003, it was after working several years as a university instructor, with years of teaching experience behind me and holding two masters degrees.
It is CHINA that seeks inexperienced "malcontents" (as you refer to them -- talk about sweeping generalizations!) as they are much more easily controlled and intimidated. Experienced, well-trained and well-educated teachers have their own set of standards and therefore often clash with employers/management who have no interest in supporting their efforts in creating real learning environments.
Basic office needs such as a working photocopier, internet connection, etc., are often missing. That might be tolerable except for the fact that in my experience in China (and I worked in LOTS of different schools/organzations) these are also the same places who have no teaching materials to speak of (although promised during the interview) and so they expect for the instructor not only to create all materials/lessons from thin air, but they have the audacity to expect the teacher to surrender these self-created lessons to them -- as THEIR property -- which they will bind and sell to students as a future course text, and of course, offering no percentage/royalties to the teacher that created, tested, and developed them in the first place.
I know all the tricks of the ESL trade in China and Korea, and I reject the notion that the problem lies with the foreigner.
Chinese ESL employers most often seek maliable individuals who are not in China for the primary purpose of teaching -- but for adventure (of many varieties) -- who can be threatened with legal recourse, eviction, etc., if they don't jump through lots of ridiculous and exploitative hoops.
One of the first things I was expected to do when I began teaching at a "respected" university in China (Nanjing University of Science & Technology) was to change the failing grades assigned by the previous foreign teacher to passing ones (because parents were upset) which of course, I refused to do. Needless to say, my time at this "honorable" university was short-lived. I'm sure in time, they found an appropriate "malcontent" to carry out their deeds.
Most experienced, well-trained, self-respecting educators would not sign the average ESL teaching contract usually offered in China.
It is the employer that is perpetuating the inexperienced, "malcontent" problem.
Jerome
- 2009-06-12
When schools in China stop hiring inexperienced, inappropriate foreign malcontents as teachers and begin focusing on the hiring of qualified and experienced teachers, then, perhaps, this discussion about professionalism will be more worthwhile. Moreover, when the FAOs stop giving foreign expert status to every white faced clown that steps off the plane, the whole question of professionalism will be less moot.
Silverboy's characterization of all training centers as being dishonest and unprofessional, as has been noted, are mere rantings that smack of vengeance and irrational generalizations. He would have us believe that he does so for the common good; however, that he singles out TCs, and DOSs and others so indiscriminately and in a way that shows his lack of compassion suggests that he is not as concerned with the common good as he is with supporting his own lack of professionalism and that of others who fill the ranks of FTs in China. Obviously, his real goal is popularity based on his insecure need for acceptance and his recognition of his own inappropriateness as a language teacher in China. His stated goal of bringing down all private training centers in China is like a politician whose popularity is fading. Fanning the flames of discontent over the distasteful flavor of the day in the hope that it will swelter the ranks of his followers is his woeful strategy.
As more and more training centers and international schools open in China, more and more FTs are needed to "train" the naive students who believe that English is the pathway to success. That in itself is more often than not proving to be a lot of malarkey, as they definitely are not getting quality education. True enough, the school leaders aren't concerned with that. It is all about the money. No doubt about it. But attacking Chinese teaching assistants, Chinese teachers and the like serves no purpose. Attack at ninety miles an hour and you'll be met with a ninety mile an hour defense. No work being done. The real work that needs to be done can be found in rational dialogue. The Chinese government is addressing the weakness of the educational system in China, albeit, slowly - but that's China. Live with it or go home.
When everything is addressed and understood, and that includes the irrational hiring of those who have no business standing in front of a class of innocent students, change will be fast and furious. Meanwhile, though, foreigners will keep on coming here and gumming up the works. And while that's going on there will always be those such as Silverboy whose claim to fame will be his ability to focus in on one weak point within the system rather than addressing the overall deficiencies and who will do so in a manner that does not give credence to those schools who are trying their best to provide quality education with meaningful curriculum and the hiring of professional teachers.
Turino
- 2009-06-12
It seems to be that Silverboy is fundamentally wrong in his attempt to present an argument. If a school presents a contract that is unworthy or draconian then simply they are not going to attract overseas teachers. This in itself will be a motivator for change, not the ranting of a blog poster.
You're wrong.There are always those who haven't done their homework and will sign contracts that compromise their employment rights.Information is useful re what a fair contract should contain.And there's a STANDARD VERSION here that is used by many educational establishments,including privately run ones.It's very fair indeed to both parties.Said information is very helpful to would-be FT's.Silverboy has highlighted what a fair contract should contain - very useful indeed,both for newbires an old hand here!
This is why more often than not overseas teachers come to China and before long they are stabbing their contract with their finger to get what they want; when their approach ought to be an attempt to work on establishing a relationship first and then asking for something.
Wrong again!Most louwai are more than happy with the contract they're offered.That's because it's a fair one in their eyes,unlike SFLS's 'offering'.
Theo
- 2009-06-12
Jeez! There seems to be so much breast-beating by posters using monikers such as Lets have more Professionalism, and Education and Professionalism to admonish Silverboy for simply being BLUNT is silly. Through Silverboys efforts alone perhaps many FTs (newbies especially) have been spared likely frustration and even danger.
The fact that he displays a particular style in his postings only adds to the diversity that should be present on this forum. What often happens to many FTs in China (myself included) is shockingly unprofessional, and in some instances, discriminatory and racist.
Bad behavior is bad behavior, and in my opinion, cultural difference has precious little to do with it. I was fortunate to make many wonderful and lasting friendships while in China. In the beginning, I had a measure of cultural guilt, but it was through my friendships with Chinese folks, young and old, that I learned they too are constantly on guard to protect their interests from cunning employers and school leaders. Chinese people are all too aware of the rampant level of corruption and often horrifying work conditions and terms that exist in their country. Most of them experience it more than foreigners.
I speak only a small amount of Chinese. Foreigners I met who do speak with much more fluency than myself, told me that they experienced a sort of death of innocence as they began to understand what was actually being said about foreign teachers (or foreigners in general) by employers, managers, students, and citizens.
This notion that we must maintain a high level of decorum and professionalism (everyone has a different definition) when dealing with people who are clearly exploiting us is nave and only enables the employer or manager to make us believe that we some sort of insensitive and self-serving outsider for questioning their unscrupulous and often outrageous and double-standard ways.
For me, Silverboy has helped far more people than he has possibly harmed or offended. I appreciate the time and energy he invests in his research and resulting warnings.