Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-24
Gee, Kev, you're starting to foam at the mouth a bit. Maybe it's time to get those shots updated?
But haven't seen you on here for days now...since about the time it started being made known exactly how poorly-kept some of your poorly-kept secrets really are, perhaps?
"Raoul, teachers come to me and talk to me about their positive experiences at the school."
No doubt there are, you being a manager there and all. It happens in every workplace and mean very little in reality.
"They don't have to buy me a drink or anything."
Not sure where you keep getting this from. I've never required anyone to buy me a drink in order to talk to me about anything. I went more for hard narcotics, sexual favors, or cash.
(Joking, of course. ;-{) )
"There have been positive posts right here from teachers at SFLS (and no they are not all from me as some would have you believe). Do those count or are they all discounted because you've never heard from them?"
Well, in the first place, I haven't seen all that many of those positive posts, other than from you under various names. Others were kinda hard to swallow, just from their wording. Of course, the practice of pressuring CURRENT teachers (ahem) to say good things is very old and well-known in this business, which is why I tend to put more credence on the testimony of former teachers, who have no guns held to their heads. And, it seems reasonable to have more confidence in the word of people I actually know well, than in the writings of some unknown entity on an internet forum.
It kind of shows how totally screwed up guys like you really are: if I accept and repeat critiques of your school from strangers on the internet (which I have not done), I'm a gullible rumor-monger. If I accept years of remarkably similar gripes from former employees (or in some cases highly upset exiting current teachers) I actually know well, I'm only skimming the data and only hearing one side. But yet if I fail to blindly swallow and repeat suddenly-appearing praises of your school from strangers on the internet, I'm being selectively unfair.
This really sucks, Kev...and like all your other defensive stratagems revealed so far, you don't have a single logical leg to stand on here.
"Who exactly appointed you as "your-word-is-golden-in-Suzhou-and-everyone-else-is-a-dirty-liar-whose-postiveness-makes-you-cringe" anyway?"
Gee...I don't know. Can you cite me a post anywhere I've made such a claim? I simply said that I've lived in Suzhou a number of years, and knew a lot of people who worked at your school, and got nothing but very bad reports from all of them...and ALL these things are completely true. I haven't called anyone a dirty liar, except for you, of course. And positiveness only makes me cringe when it's false, and/or only said to further some sinister agenda.
No, this is just a clumsy bit of word-twisting and name-calling, Kev, and quite frankly you have neither the talent nor the grapes to pull it off successfully. Sorry.
As for the pork dumpling, we know of course exactly who he is and has been in the past...just as we know more about you than you are probably comfortable with us knowing. His testimony has at no point been taken at gospel (although much of it fits exactly with other accounts), and anyway his input was completely unnecessary in order to see clear through what you've been doing, including the desperately-attempted ass-coverage (pardon the expression) that you've been failing at so miserably.
Raoul
Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-23
Uh, actually, BOTH are sort of correct.
"LaowAi" is the standard Mandarin.
However, in some regions, especially along East Central China- Shandong, Jiangsu, etc.- "LaowEi" is how it's rendered in the local vernacular and is quite frequently heard.
Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-21
Oh, my, what a large can of nasty we've opened here!
Could it be the real Kevin finally- you should pardon the expression- coming out?
What a terrible, terrible thing to find waiting after a 4-day ether binge...
Oh, that last isn't true, of course, but if you follow Kevin's line it would fit right in- for it seems that I don't know a damn thing and simply sweep up all my information from the floors of seedy expat bars. Sure, my site and I were perfectly fine back when Kevin (who is not and never will be a member at our site) was trying to use us to help him put out the various unquenchable fires that are raging around him, but when it comes out that I won't endorse the line of hooey he's putting forth, all of a sudden we're alcohol-addled idiots. (And he just can't be sycophantic enough over on Dave's "precious self-named site", but on MY site somehow this is a big no-no...)
What we're seeing, of course, is a ploy of dodgy Chinese schools as old as the phenomenon of dodgy Chinese schools: "If you don't like us, why, there must be something wrong with YOU!". A Labrador Retriever could see this happening, and in fact mine DID.
When confronted with their sordid practices and abuses, ALL these schools fall back on "Oh, they're just a bunch of drunken bums and cry-babies, and aren't good enough to work for us. Believe us and don't fall for all those terrible stories!" I've heard it over and over again...
What Kevin just can't seem to accept is that I have lived in Suzhou a long, long time, and I've known a lot of folks who have worked for SIFLIS (20 is a good guess. Happy now?), over a span of years continuing up to the very, very recent past. One of them is now in the States, enrolled in a joint MBA-Law program at a top American university, so of course we can write him off as a total lush. Others were themselves the very same hot babes Kevin accuses them of lusting after, so Kevin probably never even noticed their being there.
But in his desperation to defend this crappy Chinese school, our Kevin is now defaming me, whom he does not know, and dismissing a long line of former employees, some of whom he does know but doesn't know their identities, and painting a totally fraudulent and baseless picture of a long series of meetings he wasn't present for. Nice, huh?
The "too far away, too isolated" chorus isn't MY "personal mantra"; it was the personal mantra of all the people I talked to who worked there. I do know the area Kev refers to, and it has indeed built up a lot in recent years. It's got a number of Western-friendly supermarkets, several rather high-priced Western-style (gulp) restaurants and nightclubs, and a bunch of karaoke joints oriented toward the Japanese and Taiwanese who have built their bases in the western New District. Sure, it's different than it was; you can now buy cheese, get a badly-prepared steak, and get your howl on with a bunch of drunk Asian manager types...but we BOTH know that the real heart of the community, everything cool or ancient or picturesque or worthwhile in Suzhou, the quorum of both the upscale Chinese and the Western expats, is either downtown or in the eastern SIP district...far, far away from SIFLIS. The area around SIFLIS has about as much character and interest as a loaf of imported Japanese white bread.
But speaking of "personal mantras", Kevin and his various alter egos here keep chiming that I didn't work at this school myself (thank God), and that I've only talked to past employees (although some were quite recent past) rather than present ones. So:
Kevin, I want you to take the long trip into town, drive down Nanhui Lu, and find the broadcast tower for the Suzhou TV station. Climb up to the very top of it, and jump off. Sure, people who did this before had bad experiences, but unless you talk to someone jumping off right at the moment, you have nothing to fear.
Then, collect up what money you can and find an investment advisor named Bernard Madoff; invest everything you can with him. Yeah, OK, a bunch of whiny losers had bad stories to tell about him in the past, but unless you've talked to current investors with him, there's no reason to worry now.
Finally, go buy a big box of raw liver...beef, pork, lamb, it's all good. Carry it over to the Shanghai Aquarium, tie big chunks of it all around your naked body, and then jump right on into the shark tank. Don't let a bunch of drunks and lowlifes deter you with their whining about "past reputation"...have faith, and go for it!
While we're here, let's look at Kevin's little foray onto my forum...the one he now totally disses because we wouldn't be his obedient tool. I told Kevin I would post his missive verbatim- which I did- and would probably follow up with my own observations...which I also did. So, Kevin came on and told his tale, and went on about how maligned his school had become at the hands of a bunch of lying malcontents. Unfortunately, the fact that Kevin is a manager at this school, and has interests at stake in keeping this mill supplied with fresh meat, seems to have completely slipped his mind while making his testimony.
Does this not strike you as something less than forthright and honest?
So, let me put it to the gentle readers of this august forum: Regardless of anything you've heard about SIFLIS's past, seeing how this guy operates, would YOU really want to work for him at this place? Has he not unwittingly spoken eloquent volumes about what the experience must really be like?
What really pops my buttons here is not this ham-fisted, desperate spear-thrust in the darkness...that was easily predictable and is easily disposable. What really boggles is that Kevin, of ALL people, would seek out a battle of name-calling based on people's...uh...personal eccentricities, especially given that he's working with people who will pass on any old rumor from any old lush who will buy them a beer. The line between "brave" and "stupid" is pretty fine, and I'd hesitate to call which side he's on now. But perhaps his personal disclosure should have included quite a bit more. Maybe some of his past Yahoo Groups should have come up, or the word "Navels", or some play-by-play commentaries on schoolyard soccer matches that had...well...a different perspective than what you might find on ESPN?
Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-21
Absolutely not. I never heard a positive review of this place; I have nothing to leave out.
If I'd heard good things, I'd mention those too. But the reviews I got were unanimously bad...
Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-21
"Duke is just another expat drunk enjoying rock star status in China by recruiting young Chinese woman..."
Wow! Cool!
Oh, how I wish it were true....
Fact is, of course, you have absolutely no idea who I am.
But let me take a stab at who you are: You're Chinese, obviously, and there's a good chance you're also a manager at SIFLIS.
Any points? ;-{)
ifyoureadukeimaking
- 2009-06-18
Kevin,
The best to you, always.
I agree with you completely. Duke is just another expat drunk enjoying rock star status in China by recruiting young Chinese woman and expat - some would say - teachers, I wouldn't, for the party crowd and to promote his website and add a bit of luster to his already tarnished, falling star.
The Unholy Trinity, as one poster used to call them, cannot be educated or overcome with reason, facts or intelligence - these attributes incense them by illuminating their shortcomings. In fact, knowledge only serves to infuriate them and strengthen their resolve to destroy anyone who openly defends China or her people and schools. This is the way of dunderheads. This is their folly. Others - the wise - understand, learn, accept, internalize, promote, build, move on and have a legacy.
When I was a young man, I admired loyalty, bonhomie, camaraderie, Esprit de corps, and the like as I somewhat naively and intuitively attached these words to good causes. Each admirable when conceptualized and contextualized within a 'just' cause. However, they become quite evil when there is no cause other than deception and the 'cover up' of truth solely for revengeful purposes - 'I was wronged by a CHINA Training Center and now I will make them pay.'
The Three. Their continual, blatant defense of each others bad manners, cultural insensitivity, crudeness, lack of sophistication, lack of education, denial of rights to those that disagree with them serves only to point up their very limited experience, lack of empirical education as well as formal education and an overall attitude that is cancerous and anachronistic. But, this is good enough for internet discussion boards that cater to the ignorant.
Veni Vidi Vici
Carl Sandburg
FOG
THE fog comes
on little cat feet.
It sits looking
over harbor and city
on silent haunches
and then moves on.
Mianbao
- 2009-06-18
'CURRENT teachers? No, admittedly not.'
Not true! Are you forgetting positive reviews?
Kevin
- 2009-06-17
A brief (?) follow-up before any other responses actually crop up:
About those 4 complaints to which I referred: There were an equal number of positive responses (yes, a couple by me) from teachers and even a student I believe on that same site/thread.
Raoul, teachers come to me and talk to me about their positive experiences at the school. They don't have to buy me a drink or anything.There have been positive posts right here from teachers at SFLS (and no they are not all from me as some would have you believe). Do those count or are they all discounted because you've never heard from them? Who exactly appointed you as "your-word-is-golden-in-Suzhou-and-everyone-else-is-a-dirty-liar-whose-postiveness-makes-you-cringe" anyway?
I can't wait (and no rebuttals have yet been posted for all of us to see as of this writing) to hear from some of the 4 horsemen who will chastise and turn around every single thing I and others posted. They will find flaws in each and every point. There is no winning (and really I'm not looking for a win, more like a balancing of the scales) with people like these. Their "credentials" are spurious to say the least and they will never, ever concede a point. I've seen people like this all over internet message boards; they're a dime a dozen. I've not read of any school which they've worked for or if they've even had ANY positive experiences in schools or China as a whole. If not, then most of us can kinda see why by reading some of their crude, abusive, and overall snide comments here. Where in China are you working these days? And, if you're not even in China, why would you even consider a return if the system is so corrupt? Who made you the patron saints of fixing up the Chinese education system?
And finally, when a female colleague of mine came on to this thread and said how she enjoyed her job and enjoyed working with me, our dear, dear, dear friend "StephanieB" commented on how she and the other females in our department were all middle-aged, ex-wives of abusive husbands (you can go find the full comments on your own, I can't be bothered with a link). Well, I don't know each of their personal lives that deeply, to be sure - - not sure how "StephanieB" did with only being at this school for a few short weeks and rarely interacting with any of the teachers. However, one of our teachers is quite young and has not yet been married, one is a widow, and the others? I don't know and it's not my business. They don't gather around me cackling and stirring their witch's brew as he would have you believe. I noticed when this highly distasteful posting came on a couple weeks back, not one of the top 3 (I'm excluding Raoul at this time) came on and chastised him, uh, her, uhm . . . whatever. But they were sure to choose a side based on one over-the-top (to start with) posting. Good luck with your little pork dumpling Raoul. See, it's selective ragging on selective posts and posters and I'll repeat - - you can't possibly "win" with anonymous internet members like this.
So, now, go ahead Horsemen and take your potshots and have a great time. I know, oh how I know, they're already on their way. Yippee!
(actually, I must say, I really enjoy the freedom we are given on this site, so thank you to the moderators for letting us all "speak" our minds - - it's kind of invigorating and highly entertaining to read some of these threads/postings - - now back to our regularly scheduled scratching and clawing!)
Kevin
- 2009-06-17
Raoul, you and others on this site (and your own precious self-named site) wouldn't know a fact if it bit you in the butt! All you can say over and over (and over!) is that you've talked with "many, many, many" former SFLS teachers and they've all had negative complaints about this school. How many is "many" exactly? 3? 5? 20? 100? Give us a ballpark figure why don't you? Also, where exactly does all this commiserating take place? Some smoky, seedy, bar somewhere with a couple of pool tables in the back I'm guessing. The more you drank with your new-found ex-SFLS buddies, the more elaborate those stories probably got. To date, I've read 4 comments on another site from 4 disgruntled ex-teachers and then one ex-teacher who doesn't even have the courage to come out and speak under his real name. He is well-known among the EFL message board communities for fanning the flames time after time, moving from one job to another (as well as one message board to another) after getting, shall we say ANNOYED, with a school, and can't be satisfied with any teaching scenario. He thinks of himself as a senior teacher who can't learn any new teaching tricks. Once he gets so pissed off that he can't see straight, he quits in a huff and starts the cycle all over again. So I guess those that have complained to Raoul don't have enough courage (or ammunition) to come onto the Saloon themselves (or even here) to plead their case (and my guess is that if they did, it would sound somewhat petty and hollow - - wahhh! The school took taxes out of my salary! wahhh! The school made me work a Saturday to make up for a holiday! wahhh! The school didn't allow me to call in sick for the 12th time because I was hungover!). All Raoul can do (as he's admitted he's never actually worked for this school) is troll out 2nd and 3rd hand gossip. He must be quick to believe anyone that will buy him a beer I guess!
Here are the facts (tying in with the half dozen or more threads that our 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse of this message board have started or have vastly contributed to {Turnoi, Turino, Silverboy and I guess Raoul now makes number 4}):
1. SFLS is NOT a language center in the lines of WEB or EF - - it is a fully accredited K-12 school with the teaching of English as only one part of its vast curriculum. It is called Suzhou FOREIGN LANGUAGE school because there are indeed many courses being taught in English as well as having students from Korea and other non-Chinese speaking countries attending.
2. It is highly regarded amongst people that matter in Suzhou and elsewhere (NOT churlish, combative EFL message board members), so I think the snide and snippy remarks made here don't matter a whit to them. So keep on keeping on everyone.
3. Many (many?) teachers that have left in a huff and then shared their story over a pitcher or eight of beer with Raoul are, in all likelihood, the kind of teachers that SFLS wouldn't want to continue teaching there in the first place. You know the kind, right Raoul? Those that have an eye for the pretty YOUNG girls or who like to booze it up every night and/or for whom the party life is much more important than a professional (or even semi-professional) teaching job. Disco dancing anyone?
4. I'm sure these threads here and on Raoul's site (that's Raoul's China Saloon for those of you that may have happened to miss it) may scare off a handful of teachers, but like another certain poster opined, most China FTs don't even bother with these boards, lucky for them.
5. SFLS is NOT perfect! *gasp!* Can't believe I said that? It's true. I've stated this elsewhere and I'll say it again. They make mistakes, they certainly don't give respect to teachers that don't earn it or deserve it and I'm sure they piss off teachers. I get ticked off, but I also learn how to go with the flow and, you know, GET OVER IT! They are not abusive, corrupt, or mismanaged. They have fired Chinese staff whom they thought were doing a poor job in their managerial duties. But they ARE a Chinese school and that's the way it is here. Good luck Turino or Turnoi or whomever is trying to change the whole system on the way things work around here - - maybe it will happen in your next life! But SFLS' main goal is to further the education of the students, get as many of them as possible into college or send them abroad. Once they've done their job and those high school kids have grown wings and fly away, they start in on the next batch. If a poor, down-trodden foreign teacher can't cope or can't adjust or can't learn to work within THEIR system (and this is true for all schools all around the world), then that teacher needs to get out and move on. If they choose to meet in a bar somewhere and grouse to Raoul about it so be it. Have a good time boys and girls!
6. Here are some facts about me - - although why do I even bother as everyone just hands-down believes the 4 Horsemen, right? Yes, back in my 20s I worked for and managed a Pizza Hut. Hallelujah! Anyone else out there have another job before they became a teacher? Then, during my late 20s/early 30s, I went to a local university and earned a teaching degree in ELEMENTARY EDUCATION (not Biology and Chemistry - another PM from "StephanieB" to one of the horsemen that went awry I imagine) and graduated Summa Cum Laude (sorry, there has been so much horseshit flung my way, I thought I deserved to pat myself on the back a bit). I actually worked various other odd jobs while getting that degree; is that alright with you Horsemen? Then I worked several years in the education field in the USA (not Canada, not that I have anything against Canadians, eh?) before coming to China. I worked two years in Hangzhou in another private school teaching the ever-popular "Spoken English". There were horror stories from that school to be sure, but you know what I did? I showed up to work every day, lesson plans and materials at the ready, I finished my contract nice and neat, and then I moved on. While I was there I met some very nice FTs, CTs, and students, some of whom I even keep in contact with to this day. Sure there were people there I didn't get on with, but so what? I MOVED ON!
Then I came to Suzhou and SFLS and it's been a match made in heaven since. I teach 4-5 classes a day in various Language Arts categories, Math, Science, etc. This year, the principal invited me to help keep our ever-growing international department organized. I DON'T hire and fire people (contrary to what Raoul said on his site), I DON'T set down policy, and I have no input on contractual issues concerning other teachers. If you think the contract stinks - - - DON'T SIGN IT and DON'T WORK THERE! Easy enough? I also don't set tuition fees. For my department, the tuition is higher to, yes, pay the higher salaries of the FTs but to also help offset the costs of expensive imported textbooks and the other many costs involved in running this department. Besides teaching, I help set the curriculum for my department, order supplies (such as art supplies) and textbooks and other teaching materials. I commiserate with the other FTs when they have frustrations and I help observe new teachers (whether they like it or not, right "StephanieB"?) and give feedback to them and to the department head. It doesn't mean I'm a better teacher than a new hire, it just means I've been around for four years and know the curriculum and know what a new teacher should be privvy to AT THIS SCHOOL in order for them to hopefully do their job well. SFLS treats me and other GOOD, SOLID, DEPENDABLE teachers on their payroll very nicely; sorry to disappoint some of you that can't seem to find that one nice job and stick with it. They are generous with salary and benefits, give me a nice home off-campus to live in, and are very cooperative in most aspects. The minor inconveniences or annoyances are far outweighed by the positives. Believe me, you defenders of the SFLS castoffs, I can spot a teacher who can't quite cut the mustard usually in the first couple of weeks. I bet you could too but you're too busy defending people you don't even know and railing against schools you've never even visited. I'm willing to work with them and we do try to help them (that's where the whole observing and feedback part comes in) because not everyone actually knows how to teach from an established curriculum. But if they don't accept the help or try to figure out their jobs and try to deflect their poor job performance by complaining about taxes or living quarters or whatever, well my sympathy quickly dries up. It's amazing how a few on this (and other) message board will immediately spring up and defend anyone with a sniffle. Please, do us all a favor and get over yourselves! I would imagine of the 19-20 teachers that are hired every year by SFLS (and even more next term!) that 25% sign a new contract with the school, 25% leave not due to being angry with the school, but because they just want to leave, 25% may have hit some sour notes but not enough for them to rant on message boards, and 25% go to Raoul and complain about the school - - of those 25%, maybe 2-3 find a message board to post on about their displeasure of perceived slights against them. Just as SFLS is not a perfect school, none of these teachers are perfect as well.
7. SFLS is not way out in the boonies as Raoul continues to post again and again like it's his personal mantra. It is surrounded by any and all conveniences within a very short bus or taxi or bike ride or even walking distance in some cases. The western part of Suzhou has built up around this school. Raoul is still living in 2001 or something I guess when perhaps this school was known for being in the sticks. If you don't believe me, come to Suzhou, hop on one of the many buses that travel by this school and evaluate for yourself. STOP BEING A GUPPY AND JUST TAKING SOMEONE ELSE'S WORD FOR EVERYTHING YOU READ. Sure, it's not near the east side where all the cool expat bars are and I know that's more important for some (the bars, not their jobs) so I guess those that have that item on the top of their list SHOULD find a school that's nearer to Shi Quan street or wherever. More power to you.
In closing, I'm sure in a few days, once the school term has ended, we may actually see a couple more former SFLS teachers dip their toe in this pool or we may hear from Raoul again on how he's talked with yet even more teachers and they have yet even more horror stories to tell. I think that would be just swell. Barkeep! Another round please! *buuurrrppp!*
Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-16
CURRENT teachers? No, admittedly not. It's funny...everyone I ever knew who worked there (and there were a LOT of these) tended to leave as quickly as humanly possible, making it difficult to speak to "current" teachers. I guess I could have taxied out there and hunted some new ones down...but it's just so terribly far out there and back, you know? ;-{)
RECENT teachers? Yeah. Hell, yeah. Several.
It's POSSIBLE that somehow, after years of perpetrating horrors, within the last couple of months SIFLIS has inexplicably, miraculously, suddenly, cleaned up its act and become a model workplace.
It's POSSIBLE that winged monkeys might come flying up out of my butt, too, but this is about equally unlikely, really.
It's much more LIKELY that this gas-passage over "speaking to current teachers" is just another desperate move to stave off a truth that's finally circling back to bite this school squarely on its spotty, malodorous, pervert-despoiled derriere. Not certain, to be sure, but the possibility do exist.
BTW, I didn't come up with the "SIFLIS" appellation. It's been lurking around Suzhou for much longer than myself. I'm just passing on the good word. ;-{)
Also: I don't have an "agenda" here, other than an honest desire to help keep people out of potentially bad situations...a desire that I hope can be attested to by reading over the publicly-accessible parts of my website. I DID opine on SIFLIS- negatively- on my own site some years ago, and it lay there quietly for a long time. It came up again on the Saloon only when a couple of our newer members posted, asking about it...and I did respond to those queries, as have some others. I am happy to report that all the members asking the questions decided to pass on working at SIFLIS.
As for the discussions here, they weren't my doing. I didn't come in until late in the game.
I would submit that, given the history, if SIFLIS wants to become SFLS again, they're going to have to earn it by fixing at least the worst of the problems, and keeping things that way a while. Simply squealing "OK, we were weasels yesterday, sure, but everything is just fine today! Really! Trust us!" isn't going to cut it.
Raoul
"He exists...and he has a website!"
Kevin
- 2009-06-14
Raoul was kind enough to let me post my thoughts and viewpoints on his website although I wasn't interested in joining yet another Foreign Teachers Rants and Raves message board. However, most of the critiques he has posted in recent weeks are simply outdated. Is the school STILL screwing over teachers (assuming they were in the past)? I guess it's just a matter of viewpoint. The ones that go away angry and disenfranchised are going to say "YES!" loudly and clearly (but, truth be told, many of those teachers weren't what you'd call "quality" teachers in the first place! Those are usually the ones that pontificate the loudest.). However, as far as I can tell, most CURRENT teachers there seem happy with their treatment. All? Hardly. This is not a miracle school after all; this is a Chinese school. One that I like, but obviously not one that all teachers have liked in the past. As for comments like "low pay", "way out in the middle of nowhere", "screw you on your Residence Permit", etc. I don't see that or hear of these things from the CURRENT crop of teachers. Maybe more of them will come along in a few weeks after the term is over and they've gotten their final pay and set me straight. So be it. Like I posted over at Raoul's, I can't certainly speak for any other teacher but myself in those regards.
What Raoul's agenda is for being doggedly in his pursuit of this school is beyond me. But I know what I know (concerning SFLS) and he knows what he thinks he knows based on his interviews with former teachers. Perhaps never the twain shall meet! (I know, I know! I said in my PREVIOUS post that it was my last concerning the SFLS issue, but I just had a bit more to get off my chest I guess. Sorry about that all!)
Goldengirl
- 2009-06-14
Your contract is 'sharp practice'.Don't you know there's no way back from there?
Turino
- 2009-06-14
Suzhou Foreign Language School's Contract SAYS IT ALL!Jobseekers,scarper unless you can't get another job!
Go on with your 'mission' and you'll get more GRIEF.Wise up!
teacher@sfls
- 2009-06-14
Still so much to say when you have spoken to probably zero of the current 19 foreign teachers.
Those that want to sully the schools reputation will want to be heard and you sound like you'll defend their story quite joyfully as you've given the school its funny nickname and I'm sure you'd be disappointed if it didn't fit.
Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-14
Ah, but what you probably don't know is that I've lived in Suzhou for many years. Over all those years I had a lot of real-time, in-the-flesh friends who spent time at SIFLIS...people who sat down often and talked to me face-to-face. And I'd wager that few of them- there's one notable exception here- are any of the names currently involved in this drama.
So, yeah, actually, I've accumulated quite a lot of pretty direct data about this particular school. Enough, at least, that I kinda feel I know what I'm talking about and am not merely passing on wild internet rumors or the axe-grindings of a single disgruntled individual.
NOT ONE of these people ever had a kind word to say about Suzhou Foreign Language School; ALL took the first exit they could get from the place. And the stories were remarkably similar to many of the current ones...terrible location, remarkably inept administration even by Chinese school standards, Residence Permit shenanigans, payroll shenanigans (both timing and amount), exceptionally high teacher turnover rate, abuse of teachers by staff (foreign and domestic), abuse of students by staff (foreign and domestic), and more.
It's hard for me to come to any other rational conclusion: This is very potentially one of the worse schools you could ever possibly find to work for in China. You'd be foolhardy- or at least tragically under-informed- to ever accept a job at this place.
Unfortunately, there do seem to be some little games going on on BOTH sides of the current argument- both those with the school, and among some of those tearing it down.
It makes it hard to tell who the good guys are, when there aren't any...
Anyway, I'm really glad you know about our site now. I'm actually a big fan of ESL Teachers' Board, although I don't get much chance to come over this way...but there's always room for more than one arena. You should come on over some time. (Again, that's http://www.raoulschinasaloon.com) I can at least promise you that everyone there tends to eventually get whatever reception they really deserve. ;-{)
Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-14
Actually, I'm getting lots of information from quite a wide variety of sources, and sifting through stuff as objectively as I possibly can. More to come...
I've seen enough of Chinese schools to have developed a tendency to come down on the side of teachers, but I can assure you...I'm nobody's tool. On EITHER side.
Less'n, of course, they're cute and Chinese and I wants to be. ;-{)
kevin
- 2009-06-13
Just a head's up Raoul. One of your newest members, "pork dumpling" I believe is his moniker is the selfsame "StephanieB" that stirred up things here. Now a few actually believe that he is a she and that's fine but I honestly can't wait to follow his missives on your site later this summer as he's said is coming. He's been on another popular site (Dave's ESLcafe) under 4 or 5 different names playing the same misleading games, then getting booted. Good luck with him and have a great summer everyone (yes, even you guys: Silverboy, Turino, Turnoi)! The school year is ending soon and I'm off to a little summer camp and then a 6 week holiday. I'm sure I'll be checking in on these sites, but this is pretty much it from my end. I've said and responded and defended pretty much everything I can. The personal jabs and insults are taken with a certain *sigh!* - - I mean what are you gonna do, really? If I were to ever meet one of these yahoos face to face, I can almost guarantee you they wouldn't be nearly so bold as the anonymous internet allows them to be. I still enjoy my school and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon regardless of a few rantings (often from the exact same person with a variety of aliases) of ex-employees. I'm sure our Mr. StephanieB will land the perfect job for himself - one that will fit him to a T - and will soon be devoting his energies to that. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in THAT school! :) But it's time for this chapter to end. Have fun everyone and thanks to those that, if not actually sticking up for the school where I'm happily employed, at least know what's what when it comes to some of the rants on this and other message boards. Adieu! Adios! Zaijian!
And my real name truly IS . . . Kevin ;)
teacher@sfls
- 2009-06-13
The most amazing thing about this whole drama is the number of people who claim to be all knowing but really only know one side of 10% of all the stories.
There are presently 19 teachers at SFLS. How many of these teachers have you ever knowingly spoken to?
But, I do now know that your website exists.
Gingermeggs
- 2009-06-12
Oh, I'm not disagreeing about the slap-down of the School or it's contract. It's the automatic acceptance of a single complaint as being Gospel, that I don't like. It's the "shoot first and don't bother with questions" attitude, so well practiced here. I don't even care that Kevin loves his job. It's obviously the best place for him.
We all know that some FTs complain at the drop of a hat, sometimes without any real justification. A little more scepticism wouldn't go astray!
Raoul Duke
- 2009-06-12
Ginger,
I'm getting a lot of blasts of info from a lot of sources, and doing a bit of my own digging, in the wake of some discussion of this school over on the Saloon.
Afraid to have to tell ya, but it looks like Silverboy might just be right. There seem to be some real monsters lurking under the surface of these waters. I've always heard bad things locally about SFLS, but it seems there was a lot more to hear. Film at 11. ;-{)
Gingermeggs
- 2009-06-12
Personally,I've never sought such posts,mainly because of not having the necessary academic qualifications to compete with other louwai jobseekers applying there while also having been put off applying in the first place due to the excessive conceit of those Chinese teachers of English working at first and second tier public universities I've been unfortunate enough to have met by chance.
What a wonderful sentence! Two commas and a full-stop! This is an amazing example of the arrogance of some Foreign Teachers who set themselves up as arbiters of all that is right and wrong with Chinese Schools. Some of them "don't have the necessary qualifications". This is painfully obvious, as we read some of their ranting posts. Please note, that although Mr Turino has acknowledged the spelling lesson from Mr. Turnoi, the message hasn't yet sunk in!
Turino
- 2009-06-11
Although Gingermeggs may write LAOWEI, the correct way is LAOWAI as Turnoi said. I think Turnoi is the one who should be listened to in regard to pinyin spelling ( not sure if I spelt pinyin correctly! )
Coppercat,I reckon this is your first post on this board.I'm sure almost all other board readers,including me,will welcome you to post again after reading said post.
You have noted that Turnoi is the one who should be listened to by louwai wishing to improve their Chinese.I agree with your opinion.
Coppercat
- 2009-06-10
Although Gingermeggs may write LAOWEI, the correct way is LAOWAI as Turnoi said. I think Turnoi is the one who should be listened to in regard to pinyin spelling ( not sure if I spelt pinyin correctly! )
Coppercat
- 2009-06-10
"Get the basics right". Why don't YOU get the "basics" right before you try to tell others how to spell LAOWEI. You said you know Kevin and you don't like him, would not want to be a colleague of his, then you wish him well. I think that is really strange.
I suggest you take a look at the contact of Suzhou Foreign Language School. It is my opinion that Kevin should be ashamed of himself for working at such a school. It seems he has no concern about the welfare of his fellow FT's. Just the fact that SFLS will let Chinese parents decide who is a good teacher is reason to avoid that school.
How illogical and stupid is that, parents deciding who is a good teacher. It is more than stupidity, it totally pathetic. Kevin may not be a DOS as he says, but he is guilty by association for remaining employed at this school.
Or maybe there is another reason - he can't find employment at any real school!
Turino
- 2009-06-10
In the years I was in mainland China (2003-2008), I made occasional attempts at changing locations, but fairly quickly I noticed a trend: Cities/locations that are most desired by foreigners (Suzhou, Hangzhou, Qingdao, Kunming, for example) are the ones that usually offer the lousiest contracts/terms.
That's correct,Theo.Furthermore,Silverboy previously mentioned that some FT's holding doctorates were working for salaries lower than what they should be paid according to their paper qualifications at some key public universities here,even in industrial provincial capitals,like Taiyuan and Shijiazhuang.That had surprised him.
It seems to me that the high number of FT's applying for posts in cities popular among tourists or at key public universities is the trigger for Chinese employers to offer less attractive teaching contracts.
Personally,I've never sought such posts,mainly because of not having the necessary academic qualifications to compete with other louwai jobseekers applying there while also having been put off applying in the first place due to the excessive conceit of those Chinese teachers of English working at first and second tier public universities I've been unfortunate enough to have met by chance.
Even so,I think the contract offered by Suzhou Foreign Language school is an absolute disgrace.That school deserves to receive applications from only the bottom of the barrel of foreign teachers in my opinion.I hope the posts in this thread dissuade the more talented FT's from applying to there.
Turino
- 2009-06-09
I wouldn't even try to negotiate re that kind of crappy contract.I'd walk out and look elsewhere.You see I couldn't sign in the spirit of mutual and friendly co-operation after viewing bullhockey like that!In my view,only a fool would sign up there!
Gingermeggs
- 2009-06-09
First of all, turino, it's "LAOWEI"...bushi LOUWEI. Get the basics right.
Secondly, Kevin has found himself a job he likes, in a city he likes, at a salary he likes even more. What's wrong with that? Isn't that what every FT is looking for? There are conditions and demands in every contract that can be negotiated away or ignored.
Other teachers at that school are either happy or not. Everybody is different!
Just to keep the record straight, I know Kevin. I have met him. I don't like him. I wouldn't even contemplate joining the same school, and have him as a colleague. That said, he has found himself his dream job. Good luck to him. Doesn't mean that it's every ones' dream job.
Theo
- 2009-06-09
In the years I was in mainland China (2003-2008), I made occasional attempts at changing locations, but fairly quickly I noticed a trend: Cities/locations that are most desired by foreigners (Suzhou, Hangzhou, Qingdao, Kunming, for example) are the ones that usually offer the lousiest contracts/terms. I recall that in Kunming the same teaching load I had in Nanjing which paid 8000RMB monthly (plus apartment allowance) at the time (2004-2006) was paying in Kunming on average, 3000RMB per month!!! And as Turino said, because a number of inexperienced FTs will accept these ridiculous terms, it makes it impossible for others to demand better.
I would also add that because I stayed in one city most of time I was able to keep my salary demands and expectations high because I had developed a strong reputation in that city among students, which was verifiable. About once a year, I would ask a few students to write letters (including telephone numbers) about my teaching style and personality in Chinese for potential employers to review before offering a position/contract. These letters were a key part of my negotiations. I never told students what to say, I simply trusted that their sincere testimony would be persuasive; certainly better anything I receoved from former employers/managers who usually had NO IDEA what I was actually doing in the classroom. If you work hard, students will often be your advocates. They always were for me, no matter where I taught -- and I worked in LOTS of different schools and situations.
Turino
- 2009-06-09
I'm amazed there are louwai like Kevin who compromise the rest of us here by signing that kind of 'contract'.They must all be bottom of the barrel with nowhere else to turn for a job,or just plain dumb,or too arrogant- it can never happen to me,etcetera!
Kevin,you're a muppet!