The last I heard there are approximately 180,000 FTs in China, so your point is well taken; that is, only a handful of those teachers actually participate in forums. However, I think you've failed to take into account that a huge amount, if not the majority, of those teachers have agendas that have nothing to do with a desire to be good teachers and that as long as they're getting paid for what is basically part time work they're not going to make waves. For them, the real issues are not issues at all. Nevertheless, I do agree with you to a certain extent. The naysayers seem to have the loudest voices. It's not quite as bad as they would have us believe. On the other hand, it's not exactly a walk in the park either. I guess the truth falls somewhere in between. The advice to avoid private training schools is good advice. I always suggest learning the ropes first before making such a choice. So, yes, public schools and universities are best for a greenhorn. Even then, though, you must be cautious and be prepared to lower your expectations and standards. Disappointment lurks around every corner. Your colleagues will often disappoint you and the Chinese side will definitely disappoint you at times.

Dear Japanda:
What you must know is that most of the "posters" on these pages are negative people. Think about it, there are probably 1-200,000 Foreign teachers in China and you only see approximately .05% of them posting, and if you look a little more closely you will see it the same old group of people who obviously try to dominate evey question, even when they have no experience with the isssue or the school. I taught in China for 16 years at both public Universities and Private training centers. I only had one bad experience so I condiser that a good indication of the reality. Public Universities are your best bet, but of course the salaries are lower. Pay attention to the school and recruiter postings, you will see the same ones consistently, these are the ones to avoid.

I'd say many FT's in China are self-serving.They refrain from naming and shaming bad places to teach online.And some will put up with being messed about much more than others will.As for you,Earthling,what you consider to be a bad experience might be considered an unmitigated disaster by others.And what is acceptable to you might be unacceptable to others.
But I agree with what you say re public universities.I'd also include public colleges,and I'd pay attention to bad reviews of schools and recruiters.Now there is a problem here that didn't exist before - more and more public universities are emulating private schools in that making money has become their primary goal.That can impact negatively on FT's,who are given oversized classes to teach.Unfortunately,even jobseekers who have exercised great caution before accepting a post can end up choosing the wrong one!

Dear Japanda:
What you must know is that most of the "posters" on these pages are negative people. Think about it, there are probably 1-200,000 Foreign teachers in China and you only see approximately .05% of them posting, and if you look a little more closely you will see it the same old group of people who obviously try to dominate evey question, even when they have no experience with the isssue or the school. I taught in China for 16 years at both public Universities and Private training centers. I only had one bad experience so I condiser that a good indication of the reality. Public Universities are your best bet, but of course the salaries are lower. Pay attention to the school and recruiter postings, you will see the same ones consistently, these are the ones to avoid.

From what one of my friends told me, there are over 50,000 training schools in China which have at least some classes that are foreign language ones. The overly excessive negative posts you see on this board has been compiled over time. People don't just plan 5 years ahead to systematically come to the board and slander so many schools. The problems of ESL teaching in China have been well documented and if you're not careful you will be suckered in the traps and pitfalls that many if not all of us on this board have been through. However you can be assured that if the bigger schools have a bad reputation, then the smaller schools generally will be even less reliable to work at being they don't have as many resources to make themselves look legitimate. Freshly graduated college students in China are even starting private training centers.

The cities you have listed are all reasonably good places except for perhaps Hefei (the air there isn't very good and many parts of the city are still being built). However being that the ESL market in China except perhaps out west and near Vietnam have already been developed for over a decade now you'll find a vast array of places which means there will be crappy schools in even the best looking, expat friendly cities (like Suzhou). Also you realize that many of the posters on this board have a lot of experience working in China so just asking a general question like this isn't really going to necessarily elicit good responses.

Japanda,
what you seek is commonly asked for, and something we'd all love to see...but unfortunately doesn't exist, at least not in a form you should ever use.

Are there more bad schools than good in China?
I dunno...maybe. It's a debatable point.
And it's made much more complex by the fact that school environments can be pretty dynamic, and change a lot. Ownership and management change all the time. Sometimes at a good school, the manager will sit down one night with the financial records and realize he could be making a lot more money if he starts ripping people off...making it suddenly a bad school. Sometimes a bad school will tire of the bad press and the recruiting problems and the teacher turnover, and change their practices...making it suddenly a good school. And, of course, it's generally impossible to really know precisely where a given school is in that cycle.

But some of it comes from the fact that teachers who have bad experiences are much more likely to talk about them publicly, than are those who end their contracts happily. It's a shame, but it's the way it is.

You're not going to find any lists you should trust any further than you could throw the Great Wall. What you MAY find, with some research, are credible positive individual reviews of schools, written by teachers who worked there or have close knowledge of the school. You can find a few of those at my site, and I'm sure you can find a few on this site as well. But it'll take research to dig them out; it's not going to come in the convenience of a list.

Most of the lists you'll find, as well as all too many of the individual "positive reviews" actually come from school managers/staff members, recruiters, and other lying weasel scumbags who simply stand to make an economic gain by having your pink tuchus in one of their classrooms, and will say or do anything to make that happen...at which point you're much more at their mercy.

The best I can tell you is to get online, do that research, read those reviews, and learn to ask the hard questions. I strongly recommend that anyone considering an offer from a school try to get e-mail contacts from FORMER employees at the school. CURRENT employees are no good- they may have a gun to their heads, or they may be in bed (sometimes literally) with the management, or they may have just not been around long enough yet to see the hammer really fall. Most schools that aren't newly-opened should be able to give you some contacts; refusal of this request should be taken as a bad sign.

Never get "desperate" to come to China. Take your time, find the good job, and then head over here.

Oh...and never use a recruiter. ANY recruiter, for any reason, at any time. Don't even return their e-mails; just don't go there. They can be VERY bad news.

Your request is reasonable. A lot of people thinking of coming to China see all the bad press, and seek a relatively risk-free method of selecting a job. Well, I've been swimming these murky, fetid, scummy waters a long time now...and I can tell you that this business just doesn't work that way here. You can arm yourself with some information, and maybe avoid the worst of the worst, but at some point it comes down to payin' yer money and takin' yer chances.
Do the research, seek objective advice, read contracts carefully...and pray.

Raoul