Steve
- 2009-08-22
It is ILLEGAL to work in China without a Z-visa. You can be fined 500 rmb a day and permanently deported. The same is true for L and F visas.
The type of visa has NOTHING to do with the residence permit. That only shows you have registered with PSB.
Also Z visas can only be issued OUTSIDE of China. You would have to go to Hong Kong or some place else to change from a L or F.
Do not accept a job if they don't issue a Z visa before you arrive.
Chengdu FT
- 2009-08-17
Nice post about the positives and negatives of both sides.
Personally I would agree with Joe Blow. If you have the resources it is much better to come over and check out a school in person before commiting to work for a place for a year.
MAKE SURE DISCUSS WHO WILL PAY FOR YOUR TRIP TO HONG KONG if you come over on a L visa.
I have been in a much better situation recently and have been able to obtain a Z visa with out any commitiments. Which gives me the freedom to work for whom I want, when I want. I wouldn't have it any other way.
If you do come over Z visa BE SURE TO CHECK THE TERMS OF EARLY TERMINATION OF THE CONTRACT. Having said that, realize that the contract is basically worthless to start with, even if it is an official one.
Joe Blow
- 2009-08-16
I see both sides of this struggle. You want to be legal, but you also want to see what the place is like before really committing. It is a bad situation for FTs cause there are very few options. I came to China on an L, got really screwed by my employer (a woman from my home country who I met before departure), and went through some tough times. I did end up meeting my wife during this time and my current employer who is great. I now teach at one of these prep for foreign study programs (which is great and the teachers are free to be honest of the level of the students). I have a Z Visa, which got me a free trip to HK. I am about to start the second year contract with them.
The point is, both options have their benefits and faults. I would suggest to most to get a Z before coming, but coming on an L does not always end wrong (I wouldn't have my wife or found my current job if I had come on a Z). I would simply say if you come on an L, then make sure you have back-up (funds, family, and/or friends) and your L will be long enough to allow you time to look for a good job. Also, you have to be prepared to go through a rough time of uncertainty. Many people crack in this period. If the job that brings you here on an L sucks, tell them to #### off. You then must be ready to wait it out until you find a good job. If you come on a Z and your job sucks, be ready to stick it out to the end of your contract.
Again, I suggest getting a Z, but I cannot rule out that coming on an L is acceptable.
CAT
- 2009-08-10
Hired,
My way is different from yours but I have never had problems in China.
Surely, one needs a three-month tourist-visa to have enough time to look for the right school. Three years ago, I checked about three or four schools until I took the final decision.
Foreign affairs officers will not always agree with foreigners because otherwise, they are losing face. ( your opinion ).
In Inner Mongolia, four members from the PSB visited my flat and agreed that the solar heating system there was not enough for the cold and long winters. After they left, nothing changed.
In Jiangxi, all foreigners asked for an air-conditioner in the living room. ( not only in the bedroom ). No positive answer from the FAO.
Actually, it depends on the sum of money involved.
I have been teaching at the same college in Suzhou for two years. I have an air-conditioner in each room, cable TV ( CCTV 9), free internet, utilities paid by the school, return ticket and a 12-month visa and contract. ( full paid winter and summer vacation ). Salaries are always paid on time and the foreign affairs officers organize free trips for foreigners every term. ( very nice and polite guys )
In conclusion, looking for the right school takes time and can`t be done properly on a Z-visa. If you are a runner with a Z-visa or residence permit in your passport, the FAO will complain to police and your name and details will be placed on a special website.
Later on, you can`t get a residence permit anymore ( this is a new measure in China ).
Best wishes,
CAT
HireEd
- 2009-08-07
CAT, if that arrangement works for you, then fine; but I think you're being very irresponsible by making such a recommendation to others.
I worked for one college, two universities, and several training centers during the many years I lived in Jiangsu. ALL of the them provided a LEGAL Z visa for me (otherwise I wouldn't work for them). Having a proper Z visa did not keep me from changing provided housing, if it wasn't suitable, etc. If anything, I think an L visa would make you weaker in this way, because the employer knows you haven't many options. They don't want the embarrassment (losing face) with local immigration if their newly-arrived Z visa teacher walks out. They are under more pressure to make things work out for he FT.
Again, if that's how you get by in Jiangsu, more power to you, but readers should not forget that what you are suggesting to others is ILLEGAL, and if things turn against you, YOU will be the one who is fined, etc. Without a proper and legal Z visa you cannot file a grievance against the employer -- nothing -- because in the eyes of China, you are a 30-day tourist.
Please stop giving bad advice.
CAT
- 2009-08-07
HI THERE !
I HAVE BEEN TEACHING AT 2 DIFFERENT COLLEGES IN JIANGSU FOR THREE YEARS.( PUBLIC COLLEGES ) THE SCHOOLS FROM JIANGSU DON`T PROVIDE A Z-VISA. IN THIS PROVINCE, ANY L-VISA ( TOURIST VISA ) CAN BE STILL CONVERTED INTO A RESIDENCE PERMIT ( WORK- VISA )AT THE LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THERE MIGHT BE A PROBLEM LATER ON, IF YOU WANT TO WORK IN ANOTHER PROVINCE, WHERE THIS PROCESS IS NOT POSSIBLE ANYMORE ( JIANGXI, HUNAN,... ). THEN, YOU NEED TO GO TO HONG KONG TO GET THE LETTER " Z " IN YOUR PASSPORT.
IF I ARRIVE IN JIANGSU ON A TOURIST VISA AND I DON`T LIKE THE FOREIGNERS` FLATS, NOBODY WILL STOP ME TO LOOK FOR A BETTER PLACE IN THE SAME PROVINCE. IF YOU ARRIVE HERE ON A Z-VISA, YOU CAN`T DO THE SAME.
PLUS, I DON`T HAVE TO PAY FOR THE MEDICAL EXAM IN MY COUNTRY, IN ORDER TO GET THE Z-VISA AT THE CHINESE CONSULATE. THIS MEDICAL CHECK IS NOT VALID IN CHINA AFTER ALL.
HireEd
- 2009-08-06
Hello, Kai, and thanks a lot for your post. I quite agree with you that one should never accept a position that does not provide Z visa issuance and contract in advance.
Do you mind telling us the name of the school/organization?
Also, these types of prep-for-study-abroad ("international") programs are also full of traps (I know from experience). I strongly suggest that FTs steer clear of these types of jobs.
Have you worked in such programs before?
August 6, 2009
Recently, I was offered a position at a College in Nanjing. During the course of correspondence with this college, which states it has a preparatory program for students entering into Canadian higher education, all seemed fairly straight forward, and the contract offered looked good by most Chinese standards.
What came as a surprise was that the College would not supply the proper "Z" work visa prior to departure which some employers use to save hassle and time, but then they would not even sign the contract they had sent. It was said it was not their practice and it would be done once we met in Nanjing. From my experience in China, and common sense, this is not an acceptable practice and I have never experienced this concept with previous Chinese employers, and therefore, for clear reasons, I declined the offer.
When accepting any job in China check it out well and you should be given documentation to receive the proper "Z" working visa before arrival in the country, and always a signed and stamped contract before arrival.
Kai Lamborn