Joe Blogs
- 2010-09-19
Oh my life!!! Back and for, back and for! This debate could likely see the lot of you battling for all time. You missed the point entirely. Wasn't this supposed to be the experiences of people who know of or have worked at this company and their advice for potential teachers in China about whether NDI is a good or a bad choice. You mention ego', my gosh man, you people rant and rave and go on and on displaying your cleverness and subjecting the reader to the history of NDI and your personal views and perspectives on life, humanity, while your at it, tell us all about the meaning of life. Sorry, don't want to be rude on this blog, but really youre all wasting the reader's time. People on this site want positive and negative input before making a decision about whether this company is for them. They don't want to get bogged down in a scrap between people who can't agree and just want to write essays on what kind of a person we should be. My word, how dare you start assuming anything about people who share their opinions on this site. You can't work someone out based on a few lines. Let me just say, without copying and pasting any of the previous statements, some people they take what their given and they work with what they've got. That could be you. Thats fine.
But....
Some people want to make a change, they have certain principals. Doesn't mean their unreasonable, just means they don't look at the world and say, life's tough, life's unfair, that's the way the world is! Some people believe that you should make it better. If you are in a position where you cannot bring about change, then perhaps youre in the wrong position and so move on.
But I will not risk being a hypocrite and writing my own essay just to argue against your perspective. But don't attack each other on here, how pitiful. My statements are based on both my experience and that of others who I know because of this company. My views are that a teacher coming to China, might find that this company is heartless. A business can be harsh and I'm not going to regurgitate the babble from other people's little stories, but as I have mentioned before, there is a hell of a lot of evidence to support this. There are plenty of people who get on well at this company, but there are plenty that don't. Whatever anyone else on this site Sais, these problems are not always a result of difference in culture or lack of ability, character or stomach for hardships. They are caused by individuals who use and exploit the lovely little people who give up their life in their own country and have come to experience China, its people, culture and to do a great job, teaching. Now this site is supposed to advise those people, not waste their time bickering over tiny details and not always trying to get the last word in on this matter. I believe that foreign teachers would be better off improving the colleges, universities and schools in china, where there is a half decent curriculum and adequate conditions for seeing China and having a positive teaching experience whilst serving the Chinese people. If I wanted to be playing hard ball and fighting battles every year to get a decent situation with my company, I would have stayed in my own country and joined some company there and earned much more money. But that wasn't what I wanted. Don't preach to people about life being tough, if yah can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. Good people want a positive experience at a school or company that they can commit to, work hard for and get a little something back. Walk away after a few years having enjoyed their time in China. Simple. People don't want to come here and fight battles or to have to stress over all the points you were all making.
To anyone in that position of coming to this country to start teaching, take a look at my previous points from other posts and then if you have a spare hour or two, take a look at the life lessons from some of the other writers on this site, pah! Just have a think. Amongst the bias and raging 'egos' there is a grain of truth on both sides. The question as I said before, is do you want to risk it. Are you coming to China for money, or are you looking for a chance to do a good job here teaching, whilst getting around a bit and seeing this country?
I think the companies obviously suit some people as there are some people on this site who seem quite happy with their situation and have obviously worked hard at their jobs. But I don't want to think that so many people will have to deal with the multiple problems that could pop up with working for this company. So think long and hard.
Just had a read of my own words... yep I'm a hypocrite! (Essay was typed and I joined in the bickering....oh dear) - For shame!
Oh and as everyone seems to be quoting famous sayings to boost the credibility of their writing "What man is a man who does not try to make the world better".
And as everyone seems to be ending their writing with praises to NDI, China and so on....so will I;
I'd like to thank Buddha, Allah, Gandhi and Tom Cruise for giving me fingers to type this blog!
I'd like to thank my Mum for letting me have two pet rats! No wait that's not relevant
I'd like to thank NDI for giving me a good model for comparisons between a crap situation and the enjoyable job I now have at a University. Where as I said before I have enough time to see China, medical insurance, pay on time, nice people who think of me as a friend rather than the foreigner that generates them money and that can be pushed from pillar to post.
rater
- 2010-09-17
So.... does your castigation of the poor sods who got screwed 'as idiotic weeds' combined with your Byronic prose (in which you indirectly infer you are of above average intelligence,deeply understand Chinese culture,are a manager and driver of note, and an expert in the education management and business field)make YOU the judge.
Maybe more of a lying screwer than a driver!?
P.S. What bonus did you get for the last response and which cow did you have to milk Farmer Brown?
Salaam - sometimes less is more and me thinks the lady doth protest too much.
George Johnstone
- 2010-09-17
There is no be all or end all in this topical thread but it needs to be said that, let the judge support what the finding of the jury determines and let the judgement reflect truth and equity -- in value and in justice.
Thanks for an enlightening post. Everyone except training centre haters will appreciate your contribution, Kaibo. Work for a training centre and become a professional teacher while earning a better salary. NDI can give you that chance in spite of what the naysayers on here say! Wuhan would be a great place to start your new career.
Kaibo
- 2010-09-17
In reply to "rater" --When someone becomes the jury, the judge and the executioner, it becomes clear that 'truth' -- as a matter of opinion -- has no apparent value. I won't say what I really want to say but the internet is full of short sighted beguilistic ''boneheads'' that become the authority of all situations based on their own opinions.
For the record, in Chinese culture there are many who believe that in the first year of employment there may be individual management in an individual location that will attempt to screw an employee. It is then said that -- in Chinese culture -- after the first year of service, "IF" the respective employee has proven an inderterminate value to the company, it is expected that the employee will screw the individual management for their own personal benefit by negotiation. Need I say more ... screw for a better deal before they screw you. If a loss was incurred then perhaps the legs were not long enough and the servant di not serve admirably enough -- welcome to the world! If an individual lacks the intestinal fortitude and interpersonal skills to achieve in this 'dog eat dog world' -- so be it!
However...read between the lines "rater" -- I have fought for foreigners, stuck my neck on the line for many of them, negotiated better deals for them etc. -- at the end of the day; I do not work in Wuhan nor have I for more than three years; I only recruit for the individual management in one city and I might add, due to some hard fought interpersonal battles, it is a great management team yet still imperfect. In addition to that, I have refused to recruit in other cities for more than two years based on the fact that there are too many 'wanna be kings and queens' in this industry who do not value ethics, loyalty, contractual misinterpretations are common etc.
That is without saying that 'wanna be kings and queens' are on both sides of the fence. In that, many foreigners who come here are 'square pegs' -- including me! There are too many, both male and female, with huge egos, even bigger reflections of what they think the world owes them. The greatest in this kosmos are the ones who 'put up' and 'put out' -- those who find a place to serve and just do it! -- even under the duress of personal imperfection and constitutional imperfection.
This is the main aspect I milk as an individual; as foreigners we are not Chinese, we don't fit, neither do we have to fit--that in itself is a benefit if you know how to 'milk the cow to get the cream.' However, although I am not here for personal financial gain --it is still good to get a good deal -- but to get the 'cream' it still requires intense social skills at the coal-face to forge your own distinct sphere of influence. Wherein, you may have some determinate control of your own spatial dominion. Dominators dominate! Rulers rule! Do both-be both!
If one is of above average intelligence, they might be able to catch the drift on this thread and advise the many wanna be's -- that -- quote Kaibo -- "service is the ethic upon which dominion is established in this industry" and if an individual proves their service ethics and the client speaks the voice of approval then the 'screws are driven by the driver' -- rather than the screws being driven by the prognasticratory voice of defense.
At the end of the day, there is nothing ever perfect in an imperfect world, least of all me. I have no regrets on the service I have provided at NDI to the Chinese people. I did it not for the company, although I am indebted and grateful to be the longest serving FT in this org, and indebted to the founding directors for showing faith in me as an individual. In addition and in suuport fo the maligned reputation of the founders of this company, I am indebted and thankful for them ruling against individual management to support foreigners that I recruited, for providing a company structure, though not perfect, that can provide the avenue to serve, and for providing me with a residency permit spanning six years (not five) in the PRC.
There is no be all or end all in this topical thread but it needs to be said that, let the judge support what the finding of the jury determines and let the judgement reflect truth and equity -- in value and in justice.
Selah!
rater
- 2010-09-16
Kaibo...............
You are a large part of the problem with NDI Wuhan.As you know many teachers are cheated i.e. not paid their last month's salary,cheated out of their bonuses,and abused financially and legally in many ways.
You defend the school and their cheating which is why they keep you and you're signing your fifth year - you act like the master or lord of the manor - be interesting to see how you feel when they finally screw you,the same way you helped them screw so many other foreigners.WHAT GOES AROUND ,COMES AROUND!
Joe Blogs
- 2010-09-03
Ah yes, youre quite right to say it is down to personal experience. Of course it will depend on which branch you go to and of course it will depend on your perspective.
In the West, if something is broken we fix it, we take pride in our occupation and we each have a lot of responsibility. China is a bit different with such a large population and its quite difficult to determine who is responsible for what. Yes your point about working with the tools we have and making the most of what we're given is valid and quite obviously if a lesson plan is no good, we change it. The point I am making is why should foreign teachers further add to the problem by joining this company.
This particular company has computer software that is quite poor, Chinese students would be better off downloading Rosetta Stone software and seeking English teachers at coffee bars rather than paying a small fortune to study at NDI. You people are not appreciating that the students deserve so much more for their money. Yes it is their choice, but I can see how disappointed they are with NDI quite often. NDI leads the field, not because theyre the best, but because they are very good at recruiting and selling themselves and they will get students to sign a long term contract. But like I have said the computer software is rubbish and the lesson plans are not well thought out nor particularly relevant to Chinese students. Yes we can do something different within the parameters of the curriculum, but that not really the point is it.
I appreciate that this is a difference of opinion, but I have heard of and spoken to so many teachers who have had problems with this company, so it is quite obviously not a localized problem. Lots of teachers simply do not stay long at this company because they felt they were unfairly treated. Of course there will be those who are happy as fluffy bunnies and I am happy for you. But like I said if something is broken, fix it. NDI does not do this, they plod on with a poor system and do not update things nor reinvest profit into research and development to provide the best service to the students. Once again I say, Chinese students are paying a fortune, especially given the average salary in China and they deserve better. My experiences at NDI led me to believe that the private language schools are quite heartless and that students would be better off applying themselves to English study at University or school and seeking private lessons off English teachers.
As has been mentioned before by Kaibo and they were good points....yes esl centres certainly are not perfect and again I appreciate that it is the responsibility of the teacher to provide a good lesson and do their best to work with the tools they have. I certainly don't disagree with that. I'm just saying, why should more and more foreigners flock to a company that just doesn't care. There is too much evidence to support this I think.
It has been mentioned that there are differences with the culture or the person's mentality or attitude. Well yes of course, but then this is largely because most will not tolerate certain treatment and many are put into a difficult position by the company. I guess what Im saying is why join this company until they have got their act together and sorted themselves out. The more pressure that is put on them to improve the better things will be in the long run. Right now the owners are concerned only with profit (granted they are a business), not really with their service or their staff.
Just think about my points. I am sure the longer serving staff at NDI can argue many of my points, but this is a place for sharing experiences and maybe offering advice to potential teachers at these companies and I feel this company has earned itself a bad reputation from many. I would rather see this company sweat a little and have to improve conditions for foreign staff and students alike and then it might be worth taking the risk. As it stands now, why risk it. You would be wise to sacrifice salary and work for a real educational system with certain standards, like a University or college. No corporate rubbish, no business, just education and more freedom in your teaching methods. I would appreciate from readers, no personal attacks on my own teaching abilities, rather as I previously mentioned, read between the lines. Of course a teacher will change a lesson and make it better, but at NDI there are limitations on your lessons and sometimes you cannot help but have to teach the lessons they have devised.
There are many foreigners out here now and I think we have to be a bit careful about what we commit ourselves to and who we 'serve'. Interesting that two people have mentioned that we teachers are servants. That we serve a company. Well, perhaps it is the case that I am more careful about who I chose to serve and don't throw about my loyalty so easily. I would rather serve a company or educational institute that 'serves' it customers or students by providing a good service or useful curriculum. Think about that. I 'served' NDI for a time and they 'served' me little and used me for what I was worth. But now like so many teachers I moved on and have found a teaching job I am much happier with. For those of you who have spent some time studying or amassing the necessary skills to teach, why throw all that knowledge down the drain by joining a company like NDI, take your abilities to a proper school and actually 'serve' the Chinese people by teaching them something of worth!
Gosh.....he he
Kaibo
- 2010-09-02
Everything in life, certainly in the ESL industry, is relevant to the individual level of service and the individual experience. Having said that, nothing in life is ever perfect, especially in the ESL industry. There are no perfect environments, no perfect curriculum, no perfect teachers and certainly no perfect ESL training centres. Therefore, if one takes on-board the fact that in any ESL environment, be it private language training schools or state-sanctioned schools; attitude, servitude and the integrity to achieve excellence is paramount for the individual to target. ESL is not so much about the perfect environment but about the attitude to serve admirably. The most important people are the parents, students and business class people who place trust in key foreign teaching staff to deliver the goods. Some can deliver, perhaps some can't. It may seem right to blame the system, but perhaps one should look at their own failure to improvise to strive for excellence in delivery. In essence, improvise, use personal and creative talents to identify key concepts through the available curriculum. It can be done if one is armed with the right heart attitude. I still serve in the ESL industry, some five years down the track and have done my best with the tools I was initially given and still do to this day strive with the same said company and the same said curriculum to deliver service to the best of my ability. As for NDI -- no complaints! They have honoured my level of commitment with a great career in ESL. I have never not been paid accordingly, never had to struggle for a visa and have never been in a situation that cannot be sorted through consultation or negotiation. Cheers!
Chengdu FT
- 2010-09-02
Silverboy, how did this escape your attention? Somebody from Wuhan singing the praises of NDI.
I was sure there would be comment.
Joe Blogs
- 2010-09-01
Well well, there are certainly people out there who will sing the praises of companies that continue to feed them money and require that they make little or no effort to change an ultimatley flawed and negligent system. Chinese culture.... blah blah, how about expecting some common courtousy, manners and erm... honesty. trust me people, the reason why this company deserves to be attacked as a whole is the fact that there is a money grabbing business tyrant who owns NDI and will do anything just to save money. Teachers justify how much paper they use for their lessons by.... signing more paper! The lessons are outdated and not even relevant to the students and their daily lives. Who ever wrote those lesson plans needs to be shot! It's like NDI has taken one teachers' experience for one year and modelled that as their basis for all lessons throughout their branches. Trust me, I have heard plenty of stories from GOOD PEOPLE who love chinese culture and YES, they do get ripped off or lied to or cheated or generally treated with disrespect. Of course if you have SERVED your master for many years you might begin to believe in Hitler, I mean NDI and will of course defend it. But I care not, the main point is that any teacher who doesn't want to get trapped in a one year contract with a company that has no respect for you or their students and only cares about money, should stay clear of this place! Oh sure, plenty of you might attack the manner in which this is written, but I am happy if I can steer even a few good people away from the nightmare that I and so many others have had to endure. Trust me, I'm not even being dramtic, its that bad and we foreigners might as well work for a good company that cares for the students and for the teachers and constantly tries to improve on its teaching methods and lessons. I would get depressed as I looked at lessons that I didn't even want to teach, they were so poor, but we are obligated to teach this rubbish. You will definatley be at work longer than you think, nope not 25 hours a week, try 8 hours a day, try justifying your pay by teaching endless english corners, bars and so on. Facilities are poor and if they could save money by having us teach in the dark in a sewer then they would. It all looks flashy to begin with and then you realise that it is a front. Everything is geared towards drawing in more and more chinese students, getting their money and getting them to sign that contract. Oh wait, and I have also seen students shout and curse and try very hard to get their money back.... but that's like trying to steal the devil's naughty list from hell. Oh well, think i'm done for now. I understand that you are looking for genuine adise and so read between the lines. can't offer you a mature, well written document singing the praises for a company, but I can with al sincerity wish you to reconsider having anything to do with this company. Give up the money and go work for a University instead. Whoop whoop. Did I mention you won't even get the holidays or time off to see any of China!
Kaibo
- 2009-09-11
In defense of NDI
I do not intend to get into any slanging matches over the article by John Mann - 7th September 2009 - but I would like to mention my own personal experience with New Dynamic Institute.
I joined NDI in October of 2005. The company had been operating at that stage for one year in Wuhan, capital city of Hubei. I am the longest serving foreign teacher in NDI and have almost completed my fourth year fo service. I am currently destined to enter my fifth year of service by signing a new contract.
As with any cross-cultural exchanges in a foreign country there are going to be problems, misunderstandings and indifferences caused by communication problems that arise from the fact that we are aliens and guests in the land of China.
The NDI company was founded by professional Chinese educators who are fully qualified to teach in the PRC. As with many organisations, as they grow there arises the need to appoint management in centres around the country that have little experience in dealing with foreigners and in dealing with the very difficult labour relations policies under SAFEA guidelines. It is inevitable that mistakes are made and also inevitable that indifferences arise.
NDI is not a franchised organisation and it is managed from a central administrative body. In four years the issue of late payments on salary has only arisen 3-4 times which is an exceptionally good record. The only sin was that perhaps regional management did not inform staff beforehand on one or two occasions. I have found this company to be one of integrity, one of honesty and one that I have had no problems in recommending other foreigners to join.
Many foreign teachers, whom I assisted to recruit or whom I know, have been in service to NDI in one city or another for almost as long as I have. If there were serious issues that have arisen then I doubt that they would be renewing their contracts year on year. I suggest that even if the suggested problems stated by John Mann were truly stated and justly interpreted, for every problem that arises there is a solution and one need not condemn an entire organisation based on one report.
As foreigners we have to remember one thing; a teacher is a servant and not a master. Many foreigners have personal character issues and problems when they come to this industry. Likewise, the Chinese who are appointed managers in this industry are on learning curves and some are suitable and some are not. Adjusting to life here, adapting to the way things are done or not done, is something we choose to do. If an individual comes here expecting life to be perfect then perhaps they got off the wrong plane and perhaps they should pack up and move on.
For any Chinese educators out there who might read this article; if you really want to be the best in this industry - remember that your Foreign Teachers are a minority group. They should not be treated as a Chinese servant would be treated because they can make you or break you. They are difficult to find in number and in quality and as equally difficult to replace once they have entered your service.
In conclusion, NDI from my personal experience has been an exceptionally just and fair organisation. Not one of the foreigners whom I have ever recommended has been ripped-off unfairly. I am aware of some foreigners who have brought problems upon themselves by not conforming and were perhaps reacting out of cultural indifferences or previous offences within their own character definitions.
For both NDI management and the foreigners who are currently in service to NDI, I hope that any problems that arise can be solved diplomatically and that both the company and the foreigner continues to prosper and enjoy the fruits of serving together.
At the end of the day, it is the Chinese community and their needs for ESL tuition, that are the most important consideration in this equation. Our focus should remain on the professional ethics of excellence in customer service and in the city where I reside and teach, NDI has been awarded the leading ESL provider by the Education Department in this region. That was in response to customer and student surveys in local and regional educational institutions. One need not rest on such accolades, but seek to find ways to improve and become better servers of the community in which we work.
Congratulations on the 60th National Day celebrations to all Chinese citizens and community leaders.
Be advised - stay away from these people; if you really want to teach find someplace professional and fair. Fact - check if you wish - last year two managers were fired after meetings at the police station in Suzhou. Tax collection was one issue among others. (Chinese policewoman "Jane" a good person, was in charge). One issue was that one manager was holding a Canadian teacher's documents in her desk, which is not legal. Get this: she told the police sergeant that she didn't have said documents but gave the teacher a copy of his work visa. Well how did she make the copy without the original? - etc, etc. She was fired along with others. A rep from the Canadian consulate was contacted and gave warnings to the two lady owners of this school regarding this and other issues, and now a year later they (different staff, same game-playing) are up to the same tricks of cheating and refusing to comply with what they themselves have written in teachers' contracts. Something has to be done about these people.
This so-called school has a record of mistreating foreign teachers to the point that they must hire lawyers to satisfy the requirements that are written in their contracts, and when it is time to pay up the contract is ignored and teachers are forced to find legal assistance. Do you want names? Absolutely all the teachers who have worked for this company have been victimized in one way or another; usually it involves money and compliance with what is promised in writing. And of course those responsible eventually quit and move on and are not available for consultation. On and on and on. At present there are no certified teachers working here, (they may be good people, nice and so on, but they are not certified to teach by a university) and in the past 2 or 3 years there may have been one or two people who actually attended a teachers college at some point in the past. Many people want to stay here so they take a job teaching, and of course many photocopy other peoples' university transcripts and attach their own names to them. Give me a break.
Something must be done about this school's antics; they will continue to victimize and attempt to cheat employees. Indeed, Chinese employees - reception, CC people, tutors, etc, stay an average of what appears to be about 2 months due to the lousy salaries they receive. Typically after a Chinese person working here pays their bills each month there is little left for anything else. By the way, pay is always late; Chinese employees are supposed to be paid on the 15th of the month but typically get their money as late as the 20th. There is little complaining since they wish to keep their jobs. Teachers to be paid on the 15th usually get their money deposited into their banks around the 17th or 18th.
I have kept this message very general, without names and so on, but everything can be checked if you wish to take the time.
It is very easy to dismiss this type of information as sour grapes and personal dissatisfaction, but you go ahead, go to work for them and just wait until the ax falls. You will go along day by day and no problems until a money issues arises.
ESL schools in China have generally dismal records of employee relations; just read page after page of this website. Simply read the horror stories about the criminals and monsters who call themselves educators in this country. Two friends are finishing their contracts at NDI this month and expect the worst. The school is not renewing their contracts - they were screwed over when they had their baby a couple of months ago - money issues of course regarding the maternity leave, and they found it necessary to get a lawyer, hence the school does not want to renew their contracts. More games! Send me a message. This is not the place to name names.