Re: OWEN Foreign Language School

Training centers are the pits.

Whether those working for training centers are like the pits, too, is something that cannot be said for sure in general.

Regardless of that, it is a fact that they are working in the pits. If they do, there are different reasons for that.

English Gibson and Dave J are two posters who have worked for training centers, and there is a personal issue between them - apparent from their posts in this threat. Isn't it like two cats fighting each other which we should not really care about?

No, it's not because here principal ethical standards of the the teaching profession are on the agenda, and that concerns all of us.

It's good to see that one of these two posters, the English Gibson poster, has made efforts to leave the pits. He should take great care to stay where is now and not to return to the pits; it's bottom of the barrel anyway.

Re: OWEN Foreign Language School

You are advising the poster 'englishgibson' to go home if he thinks its so bad working as an FT here in China. I doubt very much said poster would ever think it's as bad as that.
Compared to working as a shift manager or as a junior manager in the hotel industry, teaching EFL, even to a bunch of very naive Chinese kids, is an easy number, as you yourself must be fully aware. Give 'em candies and paper stickers or sth like that, and play games in class, and they'll be happy enough. Uncomplicated job with short working hours involving no shifts, not a bad deal, in fact. Not as fulfilling nor secure as teaching EFL in the public sector here, but still much better than being a hospitality industry lackey back home, I'd reckon.

Re: OWEN Foreign Language School

Dave J is a liar. He has never met me, never come to the unfortunate center during my stay there, and then he hasn't listened to my distress call on which he rudely hung up. Prior to his fine phone conversational techniques, he disencouraged me from going to the local Foreign Affairs or any other institution to complain. Having a chance to speak with my actual employer, the owner, I just wanted to settle my last month's salary that Owens management wanted to cut in half, although Dave J thought (and still thinks) was an inappropriate request. Most importantly, Dave J knows little about the GAC-ACT headquarters, their accademic products and teaching at any GAC center, and he only has served the Owens company as a "foreign recruiter" for the unfortunate GAC center in Chongqing. Dave J brags on that Owens company has got 60 teachers, but he conveniently forgets to mention that the "rounded number" includes many local teachers as well as part-time foreign teachers in. These few foreign teacher of Owens have been called to work at the unfortunate GAC in Chongqing, although none wanted to take the job as they knew how filthy the snobish center's manager was. Dave keeps on bragging how he manages all 60 of them, but he factually does not have that power at all because he only serves as a middle man puppet to the few Owens Foreign Language School foreign staff members there, except the GAC center where he has virtually no authority at all. Dave J mostly teaches little kids and that's what he is best at aside lying. Little kids can easily be corrupt by funny games and a candy. Dave's poor approach suggests he neither has never managed anything else than what he is managing nor he has taught a more serious academic course in his life.

Dave J would like all readers on to believe that I am not to be trusted and that I am a questionable character that may not know how to negotiate an employment contract or that may not know how to do his job. His reasons to lie are fairly obvious as he serves to protect (his job). His reasons to come on this forums are quite clear too. This dishonest man is to be avoided at all costs.

From what I have seen at Owens headquarters in Jiang Bei, at their center in Jie Fang Bei and at the GAC-ACT Chongqing that is also owned by the same company, I can only say that there are more liars than just this puppet that I have talked above here and that's why this company either in Chongqing or anywhere else on mainland should be avoided. Just imagine you decide to leave on a one month pro notice because they are poorly managed and after your manager signed your reasoning and the resignation letter, he/she will want to cut your last month's salary and then provides you with only negative "Foreign Experts Termination Letter" where he/she will lie about your performance and reasons for leaving. Yes, my manager has lied right in this official document, but she offered me another more positive one, if I agreed to cancel my work permit sponsored by school although paid by me.

To set the facts straight on how or why I accepted that unfortunate position, I did not apply for it and Dave J was to play absolutely no role (no authority) in my contractual agreement there. In March 2009, my former GAC manager, that I had worked with for about three years, offered me the GAC Chongqing position then. It was about a month before my 4th year contractual agreement was to end at another GAC center and as she called me I decided to follow this fine local lady that I had worked with before. She wanted me to fill in that Chongqing position because the center was in a mess and because she was a Marketing Manager there. Yes, I assume she depended on some commision out of the center's sales, but as I knew her from before she also cared about and respected her foreign employees and the students too. I agreed as she was also an assistant to the GAC Center Manager. The truth is that I wanted to leave as soon as I arrived in the GAC Chongqing and that because I saw a gross mismanagement of the center that could not have been fixed and that my job would've been affected even if I had the support from my Marketing Manager there. After my second day and before I signed the ridiculous employment agreement there, I packed and wanted to leave (my family was not with me yet), although I stayed on being begged by both, the Marketing Manager and her superior the Center Manager, in a nearby restaurant. The Center Manager cried and lied in my eyes about a number of things then. The two even spoke to my wife, in another province at that time, on the phone that I should stay there and that my family could follow to Chongqing. Most importantly on record, the Center Manager and her Assistant Manager knew why I wanted to leave (so tears were reasonable) and I knew why they wanted me there. THE JOB WAS TO BE DONE AS THE CENTER WAS IN A MESS. I liked the academic goals of the GAC product and I still do. I got paid peanuts beofe or then and I didn't care so much. Therefore, any trash talk from Dave J on this topic is just to mislead the readers.

Finally, I ended up putting my own money and effort into this, as I paid for intitial rental deposit 5,000, health check and work permit over a thousand and flight tickets for me and my family to and from the unfortunate destination and as I worked as hard as I could there. Not only the Marketing Manager/Assitant Manager and the Center Manager of GAC Chongqing but also the GAC headquarters know that I am good at what I do as they all observed my classes and had only good things to say about me. Even the Chongqing GAC students had a hard time making any complaints about me at first and most of their official feedback was more positive than negative, although they uniformly changed their minds as I pushed them to do their jobs and as I resigned because they didn't. The Center Manager did not want me to speak with their parents and they were afraid I would.
By the way Dave, my pic was on the 2009 GAC annual calendar for mainland. Where's your pic Dave J??? How does the GAC headquarters know you? What do you really know about the GACs? Do you teach it to your early learners at Jie Fang Bei?

To all, please be careful choosing your future employments on mainland as well as be careful leaving your current jobs you have on mainland. You may think your current job is dreadfull, but your next one may prove to be much worse than the current one.

Cheers and beers to our sixth sense

Re: OWEN Foreign Language School

I never said salaries for teachers don't vary in the West. But what I DID say was that they are determined by the actual employer in line with strict regulations re a job applicant's academic qualifications and teaching experience. Said assessment is a serious matter, and cannot be queried by a job applicant. There are pay scales in place, and that's good. No-one can be cheated, unlike the situ at your crumby outfit. I guess you've never been a teacher back home before you landed here in China! That's why you're ignorant of standard procedure, as followed by srupulous employers in the West. I'dd advise anyone to steer clear of GAC/ACT on the Chinese mainland, students and foreign teachers alike!

I know that in Europe teachers' salaries are determined by what I stated in my original post, and are on an ascending ladder. Teachers have no right to haggle with prospective employers in the West! Can you undermine his BS on my behalf? Teaching is a profession, after all! Not flipping hamburgers in a big Mac outlet. That guy's the one who doesn't know what he's talking about, not me! I know in North America, it's the same. Maybe he's never been a teacher in the West!

Re: OWEN Foreign Language School

: You did an end run around me when you first did your contract and ended up signing for less money than I would have arranged.

Typical unethical training center tactics. They'll cheat not only the rich Chinese, but also dumb laowei who work for them.
Real providers of education do not negotiate salaries. There are fixed regulations re somebody's salary, based upon academic qualifications and teaching experience, among other criteria. You accept or decline the initial offer made by the employer. Your company treats jobseekers like Chinese shoppers bargaining at a non-governmental department store, pathetic. Your outfit has no integrity!

Re: OWEN Foreign Language School

Dave and I have, in fact, never met, and then he has never visited the unfortunate GAC center in Chongqing, when I was working there. Moreover, Dave has never been OFFICIALLY appointed as either my supervisor or a GAC-ACT employee during my employment there. However, Dave and I have spoken over the phone about three times, once, when he tried to "interview" me for the position serving as a "Directing Recruiter" for the unfortunate GAC center that in fact is owned by his employer, once, when I called him 5 months into my contractual agreement there, and then once when we had a disagreement over whether he should or should not provide me with the owner's contact which he refused to.
With regards to the mentioned "interview" that was meant to be for the job position according to Dave, it was an informal phone conversation in between him and me where he demonstrated little professional ability to hire a suitable candidate for the position at the GAC center there. Firstly, he seems to know little about the GAC center and its academic product and then he handles himself as a casual "chit chat pal" when handling a formal interview. Most importantly he sent a highly unprofessional contractual agreement to me via email which I had declined to sign. After I contacted the unfortunate manager in case, she sent me another version of a so called contract and she had this to say; "Ohh, don't worry Matt" "I agree that Dave's contract is unpro". "We have some issues with our office down in the city." I think that Dave had a hard time accepting the door that shut in front of his face before I came to Chongqing. The fact is that Dave had really nothing to do with my position there as the GAC center was a subscriber to another product than Dave sits on elsewhere.

Now, let me reply to some of Dave's words here below;

I do say that there may have been some issues with the GAC program

How would you know? What issues do you know anyway? And, why are you talking in past tense?

In one of his posts he says that we do not have a Foreign Director and in this last post he attacks me...the Foreign Director.

Isn't that correct that the GAC center does not have one? Or, have they just hired one? Have you ever visited them? With all due respect, do you really know where they are? Sorry, if you are so sensitive, I appologize for having attacked you either now or before. And, please would you bring my "attacks" on? I've believed my posts have been only a recap of a really crappy experience, but sorry if you don't see it that way.

...the person with the biggest problem is this poster. He has blamed his problems on every one else including fellow teachers. The GAC head office even says this this person has major issues

Yes, I am the person with the biggest problem as your inability to provide me with your employer's (the owner's) phone number whom I wanted to talk about the GAC center's issues that affected me so much. I had to resign and move with my family elsewhere. Too bad a day after my resignation and after my manager signed it, she made it all look like it was my fault completely. As for the GAC head office, I'd love to know which one you are talking about. The Shanghai's one, after I notified them, demanded the GAC Chongqing to stop giving so many retake exams to the student as it was against the standards. Mind you that happened a bit before I submitted my letter of resignation and my manager personally talked to me whether it was me who called the Shanghai's head office. But if you're talking about the US ACT headquarters, then I could provide you with a few lines from that manager in Iowa. Would you like that?

This teacher refused to cooperate with me or any one else.

When did we attempt to cooperate during my employment with the Chongqing's GAC center prior to my resignation there? Who is anyone else? Is it the GAC center's manager that sleeps on her table and allows her students to come frequently late to classes or is it the Indian Science teacher who 90 percent of his mornings showed up half an hour late too?

His students refused to attend his classes because of foul language directed at them and his constant anti-government comments. He was warned of his behavior.When I was made aware of issues I called this person and offered my help. He was very rude, used foul language and said he did not want my help As a director one of my roles is to work out issues and to help the foreign staff and I am very good at this.

First of all, I called you first to try and settle with the owner/employer and fix the serious issues somehow, but as you refused to cooperate I had to contact the American headquarters and ask them to speak to my manager about the owner's phone number. The rude one was, in my opinion you as you hung up on me..don't make up stories..you do want to keep your job, don't you?
As for the "revolution in my class", it came after I resigned in writting and after my manager (not you) decided to start covering her arse. Prior to my resignation, students got along with me, except a couple of them. Out of 9, it's not so bad, is it? We had some good time and we had a few good chats out of class or in class. On a field trip outside the classroom, we also chatted. In friendly chats you may use some informal language and away from the "class regulations". Right? Too bad I tried to force them to come on time and to stop using their lap tops for personal purpose during class. Too bad I demanded 100% attention and no plagiarism. When I gave it to them in writing and that they'd have to sign it for me to continue, they refused.

Now, who's the person with issues on here? Keep it coming.

I really didn't want this topic to go so far as this, but if one opens the door...

Cheers and beers

Re: OWEN Foreign Language School

"I do say that there may have been some issues with the GAC program", said Dave J.
In my opinion, what you have said above is a gross underestimation of the serious educational malpractice that is prevalent at GAC/ACT centers in Mainland China.
As for your personal attack on M[edited] G[edited], I regard that as a vain attempt on your part to cloud the issue. I doubt that our fellow board readers are naive enough to allow themselves to be sidetracked in this way.

Re: OWEN Foreign Language School

I am the person from Seattle mentioned in this post. I do say that there may have been some issues with the GAC program but the person with the biggest problem is this poster. He has blamed his problems on every one else including fellow teachers. The GAC head office even says this this person has major issues. In one of his posts he says that we do not have a Foreign Director and in this last post he attacks me...the Foreign Director. This teacher refused to cooperate with me or any one else. His students refused to attend his classes because of foul language directed at them and his constant anti-government comments. He was warned of his behavior.When I was made aware of issues I called this person and offered my help. He was very rude, used foul language and said he did not want my help As a director one of my roles is to work out issues and to help the foreign staff and I am very good at this.We have close to 60 foreign teachers here and many of these teachers have been here for many years. Recently I signed some teachers who are on their fourth, fifth, and sixth contracts.There is no problems with pay. If mistakes are made they are soon taken care of. At the start I did not want to hire this person but his former manager wanted to bring him on. He should thank her for suggesting housing for him..but I guess even in his mind this is a problem. Because of his behavior he was unable to complete is contracted hours but he was still paid.

Many times foreign teachers get the short end of the stick dealing with language schools here but there are cases such as this one where the foreigner is at fault. As for the statement that I sit in my "big office in Jiang Bei" hmm... I do not even have a desk there. We have seven branched in Chongqing and I spend my time every day going from campus to campus. The foreign teachers and the Chinese staff know that I am always available to help even when it is a teacher calling me at 1am because he has been involved in a fight and needs my help at the police station. I must say that at times I am tired of this job and would just like to go back to teaching. Reading the posts from this guy gives me that feeling now.