I taught in China for 7 years.

Training schools seem to have more focused and willing students who have actually given of their own money and free time to learn. Their curriculum, while often far from perfect, at least follows a recognised pattern of language acquisition and logical sequence of grammar and vocabulary building.

Universities, on the other hand, seem in general to have no purpose to their English classes other than to fill gaps in timetables and provide the compulsory X hours of English language to classes consisting of 95% uninterested students. Teachers are told to do what they like as long as every student receives a pass mark at the end of the year. The classes are unmonitored in terms of content, attendance, test and exam content and marking. Many of the teachers are illegally working at different schools of this type as they know the demand for foreign faces by far outweighs their linguistic and teaching ability. In most cases they are also keenly aware of the aforementioned points. I would hasten to add that some Universities are not like this, but from my experience and from talking to others who have worked in them, I'd guess roughly 90% are of this type.

Overall I'd say that training schools offer students far more than colleges and universities. They have smaller class numbers (typically 4-16 as opposed to 30-60 in universities), so their teachers actually know their names, are aware of their deficiencies and able do something to help them improve. A reduced student/teacher number allows teachers to better monitor pair and group work activity and improves STT.

On the other hand, Universities do offer foreign perverts the opportunity to get hugely naive Chinese girls drunk and [edited]. I guess it's all a question of ethics and your reason for becoming an English teacher in the first place.

Hello Mr Milne
Time for bed but before i clear up my empty bottles and blow sand from laptop I'd better answer as you are off to Germany,Lucky Bugger (Mr Moderator, 'Lucky bugger' is not swearing or insulting, it's what English people say, irrespective of to whom, in this case quite fondly as he's always clever without being nasty)

I hope you have a safe and happy journey and look forward to your rebirth on this site under another nom de plume. i shall know who you are because you have a distinct individual style.

SINGULAR HIGH SPEED LINE

What are you rattling on about now TL/bULLRING? What do single high speed lines have to do with the price of fish? This thread is concerned with York School of Foreign Languages and crappy training centres. Just occasionally the nature of the beast demands you make some measured remark like----'York school is crap and you have no proof it's otherwise' or 'all you detractors are full of hot air and unless you can offer any proof get ye gorn from the latrine'

Tell you what, Mate, Kevin (he has a British/Scottish name Mac something, maybe he's your relative) has just sent in his latest post, nice and long, so let's set you a test of answering him. Please don't use any other nom de plume, it's confusing. Don't take advantage of me referring to you as a Scot to avoid answering me, I could be wrong about that. YORK SCHOOL OF FOREIGN LANGUAGES--AWAY YOU GO-

Have you finally jumped down from the fence and landed in Kevin's back yard? At least we will know where you stand- perhaps Kevin will arrange with his puppet masters to have your strings fitted-if the boss still has connections on the farm, the ring also.

America is a wonderful country and I have many good friends from the colonies but they do have their fair share of nutters. I assume you were talking about "school of thinkers" within USA.

Not at ALL. I am my own man thank you very much, tom:=)

I never worked for a training centre. And I will repeat it just in case it didn't sink in and your thai beach chillout is getting tiresome. I have NEVER during my five years in China worked for a training centre ever...nor am I KEVIN!

America, say what? to use your linguistic marker, not even gonna bovva mate!
Have a good weak-end
Beers...BR

"Actually there is a school of thought that this approach is better than say the way education works in the USA.."

Have you finally jumped down from the fence and landed in Kevin's back yard? At least we will know where you stand- perhaps Kevin will arrange with his puppet masters to have your strings fitted-if the boss still has connections on the farm, the ring also.

America is a wonderful country and I have many good friends from the colonies but they do have their fair share of nutters. I assume you were talking about "school of thinkers" within USA.

I agree with Dragonized who answered you well. But who am I to deign to agree with what he said? I recently listened to BBC, a special discussion where top Chinese interlectuals participated, all concerned that it is impossible for the Chinese to produce a top scientist or any other inventive person until they adopt western education and stop pressurising kids with work and more work at crap traing centres. They were however mostly concerned about the high suicide rate among young students, as part and parcel.

If York is supposed to be so crappy, "the worst of the worst"?. Why has no one posted on this thread their horrible experiences with this school? According to you and your fellow detractors this school is so bad and yet you have not given one ounce of specific evidence to support your opinion. I think the lack of responses speak for themselves.
What you have assumed in this thread has so far been wrong that figuring my father is less than forty is just another mistake you willingly make. I guess I have to make it clear for you as obviously you really can not understand a simple point. Either prove that York is a crap school with concrete evidence or shut up and stop posting on things you know nothing about.

I feel bad for you that you had to witness children committing suicide. no one should ever have to see that ever. To suggest though that training centres are part of the problem though is pretty much erroneous when considering all the other factors that children here are facing. I understand of course you are going to give any information that supports your conclusions as opposed to actually thinking about other possibilities. I find it difficult to believe that you would call parents stupid for wanting their children to have as many chances as possible to succeed in this highly competitive environment. What would you suggest they do?
As for you encouraging your students to sleep in class as before I have stated you obviously have no respect for yourself as a teacher, your students or the material. you are not doing them a favor but instead robbing them of an opportunity to develop as English students. Frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for depriving these children. maybe instead of ignoring them and their problems you could take an active interest in their development.

Actually there is a school of thought that this approach is better than say the way education works in the USA..

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/18/the-chinese-mom-backlash.html

He should teach in China actually, he's a drunk and as mad as a hatter.....excellent qualifications for a position with York School of Foreign Languages.

Excellent qualifications for all China, in fact, don't you think? It seems you are not the person I thought you were, unless you hail from Wales or Australia...in that case I owe you an apology.

I am impressed that you are willing to try and put yourself in my shoes. Nice to see some growth on this thread. You ask me what I would like to see as an outcome of our discussion and I tell you simply enough to stop going through this site and attacking every training school with the same old hyperbole. I would like to see constructive criticism and suggestions for the new people coming here on how to do well in China. At the very least I would like to see you admit you know nothing about York or the people who work there and you are merely judging them based on your own prejuidices and stereotypes, not on facts.
As you can see from the index i am only replying to this thread as this is where I live and work. I live five minutes walk from York and know most of the teachers that have worked there through the years. To be called GWs, goons or whatever other clever name created on this site is maliscious and unfounded.
You suggest I stoking the furnace by no longer posting on this thread because you know that you have been beat. Looking through other posts I recognize that you and certain other posters operate in a way that ultimately lets you have the last word.If someone tries to defend their school, you abuse them till they just give up and let you have your way with this site. Like a group of schoolyard bullies you throw your opinions around like they are the only opinions worth listening to. I am tired of it and have decided to take a stand. Again it is very simple if you want me to leave this thread give me conclusive evidence that shows York is a crap school. My dear old pappy used to say either crap or get off the pot. Until you do that I refuse to be browbeaten into submission.
I am sure anyone who regularily reads these posts would agree that just yelling crappity crap crap solves nothing.
Training schools will never disappear, not as long as Chinese parents want their children to learn English. You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution.

"Aren't you, on the beaches of thailand...or not?!

If you are the former, I fink (to use your linguistic marker!) it's a clear case of 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other to me:"

I'm very impressed with your cartoon and more so with the idea behind it Pot calling the Kettle. There's a lot in what you say, I suppose I am a bit of a wally sitting on the porch with the palms and the sea, slavishly writing on this site. Food for thought. But I'll have a few more beers before i do anything so strenuous.

To clear up any confusion you have I will tell you this, I live in Fuzhou and I do not repeat DO Not work at York. Any of the other posters from Fuzhou reading this know full well this to be the truth. Believe it or not that is the simple truth.
I have not come onto to this thread to defend training schools in general, i have come here to defend York from malicious and unsubstantiated attacks brought on by those who have no intimate knowledge of the school or its people. I do not post on other threads unlike some who will troll this site and throw in their two cents on any thread that they can.
I fully understand that there are places here in China that will mistreat their fts, I have in the past worked at some myself. I do not encourage people to work there and am glad when someone posts specific information as to why a particular school sucks. If they do mistreat the teachers and their students and the author of the post reveals in clear detail what has happened I will fully support them.
On this thread however that has not been the case at all, one person came on here and claimed that it sucked because the bosses were bad and the DOS screwed over people but nothing concrete was said. I have asked repeatedly for concrete evidence that York is a crap school and no one has risen to the challenge, all anyone here has been able to do is post generalizations about training schools throughout China. Instead of hard facts posters such as TURNOI,TOM and other such posters rely on name calling and generalizations about York.
I am talking specifically about York, please read that and make no make n mistake that this thread is about York.York. As of yet I am still waiting for one concrete irrefutable fact that makes York crap and it remains unanswered.
Mark, Grant, Tom, Brad, James and Beef noodle have given reasons why it is not crap, if it really is so bad there should be no problem attending to their statements as opposed to engaging in character assassination. None of you detractors have yet to post anything of value,which basically shows you have nothing on the school or its people and just want to slam anyone working there down.

"You seem to have homed in on that under the bridge dweller who only wants to sleep and eat."

"Are you referring to EnglishTeacherX here? Or someone we once knew in the wilds of Central China..."

You said in a previous incarnation that i had a brother with whom you had a falling out, was that in the same wilds of Central China? and i replied if you recall, I do have a brother but he hasn't left Portsmouth for about forty years. He should teach in China actually, he's a drunk and as mad as a hatter.....excellent qualifications for a position with York School of Foreign Languages.

What do you think of this Kevin character then? [edited]

You seem to have homed in on that under the bridge dweller who only wants to sleep and eat.

Are you referring to EnglishTeacherX here? Or someone we once knew in the wilds of Central China...

Tell me if I answered your questions would you believe the answer

You should always tell what you believe in, and it does not matter whether other people "believe" in it or not.
Instead, if you make a claim you should be able to prove it or to support it by facts. None of the things you have said so far have been supported by either a prove or by facts.

If you say that the other people you are struggling with do not do the same, you ignore the fact that they are building on their experiences with training schools in China, and we all know how it works over there and how most of them are run. Now, if youi make a claim to the contrary regarding York, you should provide hard facts on what sets them apart from the rest of these phoney places that do not deserve to be called "schools"!

Most of us with very negative experiences regarding TCs in China have reflected on the system-related reasons why these phoney schools can operate in the way as they do. And we've drawn our conclusions regarding them - it doesn't matter anymore whether there are some training schools better than others, less or more corrupt....- we want a change in the system that allows such phoney schools to exist. Until then, we can only recommend from our point of view not to work for any of them and to apply for job positions in the public sector instead.
Why should anyone take a risk with a training school he knows nothing about and to wait and see whether they cheat, deceive exploit or employ their foreign teachers illegally or not? Many people feel training schools in China are not to be trusted to make it worthwhile leaving home, jump on a plane, to pay for the plane fare and visa fees, and all that. Those running these training schools in China must be aware that they form part of an industry that has destroyed its reputation a long time ago, and the lesson to learn from all that is never to trust any promises or contracts sent by owners of training schools again.

It is in the interest of each individual foreign teacher who does not want to be made a loser in the end by running into the trap prepared by unreputable training centre owners in China!

Tell me if I answered your questions would you believe the answer. I seriously doubt you would even consider it as the truth for a moment. You are obviously too close minded and opinionated to actually have a fair discourse here on this thread. Other people have honestly given their opinions and you have declared them to be lies. Why would it be any different for me?

Your arguments are just getting weaker and weaker with each post.

I would say that this applies to your own arguments.

"So that is the best you have now? You are going to start with the semantics of the word training school?"

That was a rant. You seem to have homed in on that under the bridge dweller who only wants to sleep and eat. Why not try answering questions and allegations as opposed to going off the deep end all the time. Is York giving you cash? Simple enough question.

"I have never allowed a student in my class to use a cell phone or sleep in my class, that is not only disruptive but rude as well. I have had more problems while in universities with that rule than I have ever had while working in a training school".

I'm hard pressed to decide what a training school is. The implication of using the word "train" seems to indicate that they will coach you in English for a particular reason. It's not all clear cut though is it? These so-called Centres and schools seem to have more than one string to their bows-The same outfits which have centres of learning (anything from one classroom) will often have contracts with state-owned middle schools and sometimes universities to supply FT's-they then get catapulted into being agencies, surely?

You seem to be lucky with your training school but what goes on in the classroom is just a small part of what makes up a good job for an FT.

What do you train your students to do? What do you school your students to do? Is 'to train' different from 'to school'? Do they never school in a Centre and can you call a Centre a school? All a bloody mystery to me but then save for a few weeks doing a TEFL I have never trained as a teacher, or, been schooled as a teacher-Yet can i call my TEFL Centre a school, if not why not? It looked like a school to me, they had classrooms-or am I just thick?

You are spot on, students should behave; however, I don't mind them sleeping, enfin pour moi.

I have never allowed a student in my class to use a cell phone or sleep in my class, that is not only disruptive but rude as well. I have had more problems while in universities with that rule than I have ever had while working in a training school.
If the school chose to fire me for my convictions so be it I am not worried about finding another job. I have been at a training school for over four years now and have not once had my Chinese counterparts give me hassle about what rules I have in class.
Again I would say that if a school does not support their teachers the best thing to do is leave. The demand for good teachers does not meet the supply at all. this gives FTs the ultimate power as they can decide where to work. Training schools can be just as strict as any other educational institution perhaps even more so. By ejecting unmotivated or unruly students from the class improves the class and the school as a whole. Plenty of times I have seen students given their money back and asked to go somewhere else when it is obvious the student has no desire to learn English. At the universities or public schools that is not usually the case as the administration of these schools support the students more than they do the teachers.

I encourage my students to snooze but will not tolerate chatting or fiddling with mobiles-you won't lull students off to sleep in a noisy classroom, and that aint good.

That maybe ok in China, but teaching that way in Russia or the Gulf may get you fired, only saying. Besides, do Chinese students even NEED any encouragement to sleep,lol. I agree the fiddling with mobiles is annoying but seems it is endemic in China, they can't even switch the phones off on planes FFS

I have to say I have met a good few FT's in China without so much as an O level, let alone a degree (well,most have been to Bangkok University) My observations of these teachers were that they were perfectly adequate to fulfil the requirements of Chinese schools, and indeed a few were better teachers than myself by far. On the other hand I have met a good few FT's bristling with degrees, yet had a much weaker grasp on English than their colleagues working on degrees purchased down the Khaosan Road. Some little 22 year old girl fresh from some run of the mill university in Pennsylvania is not going to have anywhere near the command of English that a 45 year old well-read ex-plumber turned FT from Watford England. When we talk about teaching English in China we are talking about Oral English(mostly)-Just turn up on time and open ypur mouth will do nicely.

I can agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I knew plenty of guys in China not only without any university education, but I wondered how much secondary education they had...and they still got hired in jobs. An ex army mechanic I knew always got work in China, but I don't get how being able to change the treads on a tank at some base in Cyprus equates with teaching English in China but there you go...

fully qualified and professionally trained teachers instead of those cheap copies having been "trained" in a 4-week intensive TEFL/Celta course.

@ Turnoi: I am a bit curious about what you wrote in your previous posting. You are somehow implying the CELTA course is not worth the paper it is printed in, I, and others would beg to differ it is not. If someone is using a counterfeit/fake certificate to gain a ESL job then of course that is morally wrong and akin to deception.

I would wager there are not many teachers in China with so much as a Bachelor of Arts in English, or anything relating to it, I met some teachers with only high school education, nothing more. Silverboy by his own admission has stated he only has a degree, and has a fashion/modelling background....my point is, what do you consider adequate for teaching in China, how long is a piece of string? Because I can tell you guys I know with an MA and Delta look down on those in China with no degrees or only a BA....

grazi,bullring