Mat
- 2013-02-26
I am wondering why so many morons came to teach in china? losers in their countries??
I have had enough classes but you seem to be a totally uneducated person. Go home farmer Joe!
p
- 2013-02-24
Hi. It appears you need some English classes. Were you seriously attempting to be an English teacher? And you are wondering why you couldn't get a job?
San Migs
- 2013-02-14
I harbour grudges and don't forget nor forgive those who have wronged me. But thanks for that site, that is a good idea indeed!
San Migs
- 2013-02-14
I'd wager a lot of children of wealthy Nigerians can actually speak english better than some white trash who grew up in a poor area can. You argument is just justifying asian racism against those of dark skin colour.
Dragonized
- 2013-02-14
Yes, I do think that the paranoid, conspiracy filled anti-west motto of so many westerners living in china need to perhaps be beaten out of them. [edited]
ASTF
- 2013-02-14
Speaking of sticks to beat people with I saw this article on the bbc website this morning
Mancunian S
- 2013-02-13
Hello again
Because of a reply to you today by another poster, I would like to reaffirm my position, which is, is that it is total nonsense to expect the Chinese, or any other nese-type country to be happy about employing an FT who is not a native-born English speaker. This FT doesn't have to actually be English(although that would be ideal,) he can be an American, a Scot, and so on. Most of the support for any-old-nationality-will-do, comes from grumbling FT's needing another stick to beat the Chinese with.
Dragonized
- 2013-02-13
This is a good, informative post. I have met teachers from countries such as Nigeria and the Philippines where English is a required language to be learned by everyone. I find it a bit unfair that teachers from these countries are classified as "non-native" speakers. The Philippines have a heavy American influence and their accent even sounds like it, hence the large number of call centers set up by USA companies there to handle customer service issues from back home. The Nigerian accent while distinct is much easier to comprehend than the Indian accent as well as Native English accents from Australia and South Africa IMO, and the Nigerian guy told me he started learning the language from birth. Hopefully as the world become smaller these teachers become more accepted.
As for a non-native speaker contributing much more than native speaking teachers, look no further than the Turnoi poster. He has given much more than the rest of the regular posters on this board.
Mancunian
- 2013-02-05
Hello there
I am sure you will get a few posters eagerly gnawing over this particular bone of contention; but for myself, I have very little to say about it other than it's self evident that English speakers make the best teachers, and that oral English hasn't much to do with higher academics. I will say that the Chinese have every right to hire whosoever they please- if they are stupid enough and greedy enough to hire barely understandable Africans posing as Americans...well, it is their country- not something I actually lose sleep about.
ASTF
- 2013-02-05
Is a native ESL teacher better or much better than a non native?
I think how a teacher is judged can be done so along several different but rather broad lines. These could include
1. Qualifications
2. Experience
3. A natural aptitude for teaching
4. English ability / language awareness
The first two points can always be changed by an individual regardless of their nationality. You can do more training and you can seek out opportunities to find more experience. The third point is dependent upon the personality of the individual but is not necessarily dependent upon their nationality. Some people can't teach and those that can teach one particular level or age group might struggle if they were put into a different one. The final point is the one that perhaps separates out a bit more. The argument is often made that non-native speakers have a more explicit knowledge of the English language than us native speakers have but much like qualifications and experience this is something that we native speakers can always go out and gain via studying the language and teaching it. On the other hand a non-native speaker can't truly become a native speaker. You can get very close to being so but unfortunately your cards have been dealt in advance by the fact that you weren't born and/or didn't spend a significant portion of your life living in an English speaking country. Therefore, I guess if you were looking for the 'ideal' candidate to teach the English language it probably would be a native speaker who ticks all the boxes above. Of course there aren't many 'ideal' candidates out there so in reality you will find that some non-native speakers are better than native speakers at teaching English.
Can you believe it? a non native teacher has been staying and working at the same school, public college for 8 years?
Yes I can believe it. Non-native speakers have fewer opportunities than native speakers and so when they do find a place where they feel comfortable and accepted they will keep it. However, this example is slightly clouded by the fact that she teaches 2 languages. If the school were looking purely for an oral English teacher they might have treated her application differently.
In general it's interesting how you often find that non-native teachers stick it out at a particular school longer than native speakers do. Again this must be seen as a realization that there are not always that many good opportunities for them and if they find one they tend to grab on to it. You also tend to find that the long term teachers come from smaller more obscure countries. Serbia is not part of the EU and when your friend in jiangsu arrived in china then nor was Romania (joined 2007). Therefore on a global scale these applicants have far fewer options than native speakers as well as some other non-native speakers who come from larger countries.
E T
- 2013-02-04
I have recently discovered this website about ESL teaching and I do consider it interesting and useful for all the brave ones who choose to leave their comfort one and go and teach in another country, most of the times on the other part of the world.
I have noticed a discussion about the old controversial topic, native ET vs non native ET who come to China, or even Thailand and have the guts to steal, yes actually to steal the ESL jobs who were originally given only to those who came from a country where English is the first language. Are they thieves? are they impostors? are they not in their place??
Personally I do not know the answer at this question, but I am asking your opinions regarding this topic. Is a native ESL teacher better or much better than a non native?
I have met both native and non native teachers during my stay in Asia and some were good and some not.
I remeber three examples of non native English teachers in China I personally met and, surprisingly they were and I suppose they still are successful and apreciated by the schools they worked for:
- the first case is a Romanian English and German teacher from Romania, Diana who has been teaching ESL at the same college in Jiangsu, in one of the most beautiful and visited cities in JInagsu, Sushou for about 8 years. Can you believe it? a non native teacher has been staying and working at the same school, public college for 8 years?
And, as I know, she' s still there at the same college hoping to retire from China. I mean from Romania but to stay and work in China until the retirement age .
- the second case I knew was a woman, a teacher from Serbia, who has been working for a private school EF English , somewhere in a city in northern China, in Shanxi I think and who has become the headmaster of that school, got a higher salary like 12000 rmb a month, and has been moved to Shanghai now. And she is from a non native ex communist country, Serbia.
- and the third case I pesonally knew was a female teacher from Philippines, somewhere at a training center in a richer province in the south of China who has been the headmaster of that school for about 9 years at the same school.
These are only three examples of successful non native ESL teachers in China. I suppose they are still there doing well for themselves and for their students. And it seems the schools are thanked by them even if their accents, probably, are not American, British or Kiwi. But all of them are hard working and had taught English in their own countries before their coming to China . So all of them are professional in teaching but still non native of English.
And, on the other hand, I met many native English speakers too some good ones and some bad apple too. But , only few of them had taught in before their coming to China.
About the original post about the bad experience that ( probably) non native ESL teacher had with the school in Thailand:
I do like Thailand as a country and a great holiday destination. Is Thailand hell? are all the school owners in Thailand racist and assholes? I do not think so.
If someone had a bad experience in a bad school this doesn t mean all the schools are bad and all the Thai school owners are evil and diabolic.
In conclusion I just mention my humble opinion about this topic waiting for some opinions from fellow ESL teachers..
Thanks
San Migs
- 2013-02-04
Your post sounds like that of a sell out, go getter, snivelling, weasel type FT. An I'm alright jack, but I don't want those non native speakers around me, as they are a threat because they can undercut me. I hope you are man of good morals, we shall see.
Mancunian
- 2013-02-04
It's very obvious that English isn't your first language, so perhaps you're lucky that you were employed for any sort of English teaching job. People like you, who want to teach English in Thailand but don't have the advantage of it being their first language, are usually given the worst jobs. it sounds like that's what happened to you.
Also, when individuals write posts that paint 100% of any group of people with the same brush, they lose all credibility. Do you really expect people reading this to believe that EVER English school director in Thailand is dishonest? Don't be so emotional and naive.I've been teaching in Thailand for over 10 years, have been treated pretty well here, and have enjoyed it.
Quite right, Jeremy, we are fed up...in fact we've had a bellyful of FT's who do not have English as their first language, throwing their weight around. They should be glad to have had employment in the first place, and be more than content with the odd scraps discarded from proper English FT's table. I have alweays maintained that 'as long as he's a native born speaker' a retired grave-digger, with a speech impediment, makes a better oral English FT than a second language heavily-degreed pretender. Now, am I right or am I right?
Jeremy
- 2013-02-04
It's very obvious that English isn't your first language, so perhaps you're lucky that you were employed for any sort of English teaching job. People like you, who want to teach English in Thailand but don't have the advantage of it being their first language, are usually given the worst jobs. it sounds like that's what happened to you.
Also, when individuals write posts that paint 100% of any group of people with the same brush, they lose all credibility. Do you really expect people reading this to believe that EVER English school director in Thailand is dishonest? Don't be so emotional and naive.
I've been teaching in Thailand for over 10 years, have been treated pretty well here, and have enjoyed it.
HI,
This is to warn everyone who has a dream of coming to thailand and teach. I can say this country sucks! The agents are foolers and all they think is to get every bhat that you earn. Not only that school english head also gets commissions... so, you end up working your butt all day for 42.5 hours a month.... with so little pay. Better work dishawasher and paid fairly every hour.
You are going to be called for interview like this agent: Language services in Ayutthaya runned by certain SOMJEt and ROY and they can do it via skype but they just want you to spend money to see them far from Bangkok. And then, they will promise you anything around the world.... and say o you come to this place, our teacher waiting for you there.... but when you reach there after logging around your luggage... all you get is a frown face cant speak headteacher, that will tell you... get a guesthouse and see you monday. Monday comes... hahaha.... she already decided not to hire you and interpreted some nasty things to the director.
I hope you get what I mean... Language is easy to understand it can be understood thru body language and facial exxpression.... We ended spending few hundred bucks for this shit agent... and all we got was nothing.
This is a lesson learned. I want to warn those who are wishing to come here... dont!!! and avoid a man named SOMJET or ROY.. and Language Serivices.. these are agents going to suck your blood and leave you alone.
Ayutthaya sucks. Thailand sucks