This is an official retort to all EF people who believe they stand for integrity and honest work.

As a general rule, these boards exist for a reason. There is also a reason why some people choose to stay on these boards well after they've stopped working in china. One who is a newbie might be inclined to think about some things. Some of us are quite young, below the age of 30. Some of us have also worked in china for several years. Some of us, while we may hold some opinions that are not the most scrupulous, will still say the right things about "schools" such as EF, unlike some people.

1. Medium and to the point - People log on to post something not only when there is bad, but also when there is good done. As a matter of fact before 2008 there can be the argument that most of the threads on this board was towards the great endorsing of many "schools". One needs to look at the threads and see the gradual change in the attitudes of many people to see how it got so bad. There are plenty of one time or two time posters who have posted long stories that resemble cases from a crime novel. The "good" posts stopped appearing because people gradually got the point that there were plenty of willing, volunteer sugar coaters.

2.

Those who have had bad experiences with schools tend to be those who have run into problems as a result of their own behaviour, conduct or professionalism whilst at work. A lot of 'undesirables' are attracted to teaching in China because it's 'easy' to get a job, and on the salary that can be earned as a language teacher, the city is your playground. If a young (or immature), hot-headed individual has broken school rules (perhaps they were persistently late to class, or they were unprepared for lessons, or they frequently used inappropriate language, etc), and been disciplined as a result, they may see a good way of 'getting their own back' as posting some outrageous comments about the school. Just take a look at the kind of vulgar, immature, playground language that is used in many of the negative comments, and you can get an impression of the kind of people who are writing them. Think: 'Is this really a professional, hardworking teacher who has genuinely been treated in such an appalling way by an evil school? Or are these the ventings of an angst-ridden misfit who, in the hope of coming to China for a 12-month party, couldn't follow rules in a professional environment?'

As a matter of fact, there are plenty of behavioral problems in these "schools". However it always seems to be the case that the worst behaved people aren't fired, but are promoted. The wicked, deceitful, lying individuals who commit fraudulent acts towards their bosses, their fellow expats, as well as students by "teaching" gives them benefits and ensures job security. Hey for those of you who don't care about ethics or morals, COME ON DOWN.

My advice,

1. You will find plenty of good news about the "schools" as well as pretty pictures of the scenery. In fact you don't actually need to make any effort whatsoever to find the good news, as it is a part of modern china's culture to present things as being pretty. It does take effort to find some threads of bad news, so in the end the judgement of whether to go somewhere or not is completely up to the person making the decision. We all have high hopes when we go to a new, foreign country. But it is just that: HOPES. Not reality. It is a part of human nature when we hope for something good that we will almost certainly go with the good side and try and think away the bad. This is why I keep coming back to the boards, to provide a more balanced view of what being in one of these "schools" is like. However I know for a fact that despite me and other people's warnings there will always be new suckers/victims to these pretend "educational" bodies.. Real life experience is always the best teacher, and more people will learn that.

2. A DOS is also known as a Director of Studies. The "studies" part being giving what the prospecting teacher what he/she wants to hear and giving the bosses what they want in money by exploiting the foreign teachers while trying to keep things "all right". Not a job with a lot of dignity attached to it if you ask me.

3. Regular training? On how to be entertaining monkeys? Heck you don't need "training" for that. If Darwin was correct we can just bang our heads against the wall until we don't know how to think straight, then go directly to the "classroom" (or fishtank would be a better description?) and "teach".

4. Of course the contract will always be ahm...honored (*wink), after all it's not like the DOS/chinese boss/whoever you're dealing with is lying to you to get you to go there XD. It's true that once most people get there even if they were lied to they just go with the flow since there isn't a real, better alternative in their minds. But HEY the compassion of these "schools" just oozes out of their glass cubicles so you'll be uhh...fine!

5. Yep, nothing like taking a picture of a rich person's home and posting it on the internet to tell teachers this is what they'll be living in hahahaha. Talk about misleading marketing. But hey by living with cockroaches/rats/bird nests?? you will enjoy nature within nature. A chinese "biosphere" of refreshing smog on the outside, unpaying "tenants" who make your life more enriching on the inside.

6. Right for the sake of job security the employees will tell you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You can bank on the good will of strangers all the time because the absolute utopia in that country has blessed the expats with total integrity.

from my five years of living and working here, I can say that in almost every single case where a western teacher has really bad things to say about a school, its actually the teacher who has failed to meet the requirements of the contract, either because of laziness or just immaturity.

I'm sure you believe everything your boss/DOS has told you about these immature foreigners. What with china being such a great, flawless country that cares about the well being/non-burned out spirit/state/condition of a teacher of course the only ones who get fired are the 'immature", "lazy", or how about I give you some "crazy", "stupid", "black", "yellow", "red", "brown", and "ungrateful" ones?

If you are a professionally-minded teacher with a good work ethic, youll be absolutely fine. If youre looking for easy money and boozy nights out all the time, then please dont come to China or at least not to EF Shenyang.

[edited]

[Edited by Administrator (admin) Mon, 11 Jul 2011, 10:38 PM]

It is correct to say avoid English First. EF is such a misleading name, since they don't know jack about how to teach English properly. Their people are arrogant and unprofessional. Rude, rude, rude!!!!!!!

This thread is a couple of months old, but just in case anyone is still following it...

I've been working at EF in Shenyang for the last year and a half. As far as I'm concerned, it's a good school and doesn't deserve a lot of the bad press that some of the schools around here get. At the moment we don't actually have a DOS, but we'll be opening up a new center in the north of the city in the next month or two and have a DOS lined up for each of the centers (the teacher who will be in charge of the center here is training in the US at the moment). The leadership is mostly Chinese, I've found them to be very supportive both in school work and with any problems teachers have with their apartments, health etc. Quite a few of the teachers stay for longer than their initial year contract, it seems that if you can get past initial problems with the cold winters, pollution and cultural differences it's not a bad place to live and work.

To be honest, this is my first proper teaching job, so I can't really compare my experience here with other schools. I'd say the facilities are fairly basic but improving (we should be getting new computers and video projectors in the classrooms starting in a couple of months); the salary is probably slightly above average for a school of its kind (although I've never heard of any problems regarding payment on time) and the staff are supportive. I have heard of some issues with EF in general, but I'd say you shouldn't be too worried about signing up here in Shenyang.

Thanks for the useful comments, I guess I'll keep looking!

I haven't actually done the interview yet, I was feeling more put off by the volume of comments about how many terrible schools there are in general in China. I've got a TESOL qualification and a degree so I am properly qualified, it's just hard to know where good places are to apply when it's your first job....any suggestions on how to find a good school? Thanks.

@ EF, I have had a phone interview with EF before, and I would say avoid!

Arrogant, pompous foreign DOS's who couldn't even get a job in a supermarket back home, due to being devoid of charm and manners, and can only exist in China off the backs and sweat of others.

These boards alone and the postings about EF on them, should put you off forever!

Though I generally try to avoid making extreme comments, I will say this about EF, avoid all EF schools, period. Maybe there is one or two branches out there which are decent to work at, however the school has such a bad rep that in truth it would be foolish to work at any of them. Don't risk it, avoid EF altogether.

Hi all, I have a phone interview with the recruiter from this school in a few days and was trying to find out if it's a good place to work or not, I've been looking through the posts on here and I see there's a lot of negative comments about other EF schools but I can't see anything about Shenyang. Has anybody worked there? This is my first interview for my first job and I'm starting to feel quite put off by the whole thing already! Thanks for any advice you can give