If more people would stand up for themselves it would help keep the bar from continuously falling in China for all teachers, because there would be some better jobs out there.

I agree.

Give an inch, take a mile...

Don't tempt me got a couple of cold ones in the fridge...but had a heavy friday night, I'm on juice...sad I know:)

which is not very attractive given the heat, the lack of freedom, and unfriendly colleagues there, etcetera. Clearly the downward spiral in salaries has continued. Not worth it to go there and have to work hard for so little, relatively speaking. Better to stay in China and get paid basically just for turning up at the classroom!

Your thoughts mirror my own!

On my return, it doesn't seem so bad in the PRC...complete freedom to teach what I like, cheap and good beer, possibility of a gf,etc etc.

The heat is another point. Without A/C it is hell. I wouldn't say that your colleagues are unfriendly...just most seem to be motivated by money to such an extent, they will stab you in the back and screw you over, just out of spite, and to make themselves feel good. Have to be careful who you trust over there. There is the usual collection of bankrupt, drunk, deadbeats and the plain lazy and racist who hate the locals and islam, and just want easy cash.

As I said, I wouldn't care to repeat it...but you may like it?

Cheers on
SMGS

an ordinary EFl teacher over there living non-extravagantly, what would one's earnings be for a 25 period a week teaching load plus office hours, and how much of it could one put aside after paying for one's daily living costs? Please answer in US dollars.

Ok, it is only fair to answer. Even pushing the boat out a bit, the odd visit to the pub, western supermarkets, and so on, I still managed to save pretty well.

For 20 teaching contact hours and the rest of the time sat online in the office, I was gettting 3,500 USD a month in equivalent local currency. So it is definitely possible to save. Eating locally, cooking at home is cheap. Alcohol is expensive, more so than the UK and you need a permit if you want to buy. So it is more restrictive if you are into beer than China. Girlfriend? Not even going to happen, non muslims can be deported for that.

I should add it is soul destroying work. You only need to listen to and observe your colleagues, as there is an unseemly scramble come July to GTFO and go home or travelling. Lots who have done it for years, get burnt out on it. I would only repeat it if things got very dire, as it is, like you I can save half of 5,000 rmb a month.

Cheers and happy w/e,
SMGS

Because of this situation, I know for a fact that there is a CHANGE going on to get rid of previously existing 12 month contracts; I know that one can fight it; and I know that if one is a hard-working teacher with some talent one can win. I've also fought and won other battles at other schools over contracts, rent, and attempts to, among other things, eliminate overtime pay for teachers and do free promotion.
To those who are taking issue with me, I say, "enjoy your summer camp jobs."

Unlike yourself, I have a different approach. I look at the entire employment package on offer. I know how much hard graft, or in fact, little as it turns out, I will put in to my job. Overtime? paid or unpaid - I don't give a damn, as I ALWAYS decline it. Jobs on the side? Ditto. If the package is below my expectations, I turn it down. I won't negotiate at all, I'll just look elsewhere. I feel i'm not cheated for the non-demanding jobs I choose to choose. And I don't want to cheat the Chinese. I'm not a cheat nor somebody who will stoop to sharp practice. But if my employer breaks my contract, I'll make him regret it - he'll never forget me!
In my country teachers are on rigid pay scales. Negotiating with employers in the field of edu is a piece of crap, imo. Summer camps, the same. Never done one. Never will.

And if there were many more people doing a quality jobs and standing up for fair compensation, the whole playing field would be better here. Those of you who think it's OK to snip off months of salary, and it's just up to the teacher to accept it or bugger off, are just making things harder for the rest of us by going along with the diminution of English teaching jobs in China and Asia. A country like Thailand has become a very difficult place to find a decent job, for example, because of the constant influx of inferior teachers who have lowered the bar of compensation for performance for everyone else.

Yours is a pipe dream. The Chinese will just hire eastern Europeans and other non-native speakers to cut their employment costs if we try to negotiate. We can't win, generally speaking. If some of us boycott the lower paid jobs, there are plenty other backpackers etc who will fill those vacancies. The Chinese edu system is substandard.

Now for some cheap Chinese food and cheap beer!

The trouble with you is that you're making judgements re how much, or little, money is sufficient for laowai to live well off of in China. You remind me of a fool of a foreigner in Dongbei who said he couldn't survive off of 5,500 RMB/month. He neither smoked nor drank. At lunchtime and dinnertime he consumed cheap school canteen food. Christ knows what he was spending his hard-earned on. Absolute guff he was spouting!

'Real teachers' like me make money that makes the salaries of stuck-up laowei pretending to be uni lecturers pale into insignificance.... LOL!

Oh lordy, here we go! "Real teachers", just what does that mean? Have you got a PGCE perchance...I haven't?

If you have more power to you, because with a pgce or M.ED you can command those higher salaries, so I say fair play. I haven't so I take what I can get, but not being arsey about it either.

Making comments like that will cause a flame war, as has been seen many times before on these boards.

Peace and happy weekend
SMGS

I prefer working harder, doing real teaching, making a difference

I'd question whether we are "making a difference"...

Things won't change here, just because of us...naive to even think so.

I'm probably just being "realistic."

Your problem is that you're not being realistic. You teach at unis as a professional teacher doing a lecturer's job for substantially less money than you could get elsewhere in China being a resl professor. You remind me of a fellow foreign teacher from Chicago lecturing at a private uni in Dongbei. He was only on 7,000 yuan a month despite having been a real college lecturer in Business English back home.
As a GAC instructor in China, you can expect at least 10,000 yuan a month, and you'll be teaching students subjects such as Academic English and Business Studies. That's how to make very good money here as a real teacher. I'm surprised you don't know this!

I was aware of that and have no interest in teaching Academic English and Business Studies. We were talking about the looming extinction of the 12 month contract for public schools, and whether that was a scam, an injustice, a travesty, business or usual, or just tough shit.

to Raoul and Riv, and others who may think I have a "sense of entitlement" for not wanting to be shorted 1/6th of my yearly pay.

Aside from the fact I've already shared about the standard 12 month package for returning teachers, or those with enough qualifications and experience, I managed to negotiate to not lose my 12 month contract at my current place of employment.

There was a push to cut corners on foreign teacher's salaries and scale back how many month's pay (actually monthly installments of a yearly salary) we would receive. Rather than meekly folding over, I stood my ground and argued that we should have the same number of payments as the Chinese teachers. The discussion ended abruptly because my argument was irrefutable. As a consequence not only do I still get the 12 month contract, but so do all the other foreign teachers at my school.

Because of this situation, I know for a fact that there is a CHANGE going on to get rid of previously existing 12 month contracts; I know that one can fight it; and I know that if one is a hard-working teacher with some talent one can win. I've also fought and won other battles at other schools over contracts, rent, and attempts to, among other things, eliminate overtime pay for teachers and do free promotion.

To those who are taking issue with me, I say, "enjoy your summer camp jobs."

And if there were many more people doing a quality jobs and standing up for fair compensation, the whole playing field would be better here. Those of you who think it's OK to snip off months of salary, and it's just up to the teacher to accept it or bugger off, are just making things harder for the rest of us by going along with the diminution of English teaching jobs in China and Asia. A country like Thailand has become a very difficult place to find a decent job, for example, because of the constant influx of inferior teachers who have lowered the bar of compensation for performance for everyone else.

Now for some cheap Chinese food and cheap beer!

I'm probably just being "realistic."

Your problem is that you're not being realistic. You teach at unis as a professional teacher doing a lecturer's job for substantially less money than you could get elsewhere in China being a resl professor. You remind me of a fellow foreign teacher from Chicago lecturing at a private uni in Dongbei. He was only on 7,000 yuan a month despite having been a real college lecturer in Business English back home.
As a GAC instructor in China, you can expect at least 10,000 yuan a month, and you'll be teaching students subjects such as Academic English and Business Studies. That's how to make very good money here as a real teacher. I'm surprised you don't know this!

One can still use one's own logic within China, and if they can't use it we can to outsmart and outmaneuver them.

Oh, wow. That's, uh...quite a statement. Good luck with that.

There seems to be a sense of entitlement in all this that I just don't understand.
Warren, you seem determined to portray 10-month contracts as a scam. I don't agree, but I wish you all the best.

Wish you the best, too, however, as you say, we don't see eye to eye on this. I've already shown that there is a 12 month contract (I have it myself), that returning teachers used to customarily be given it, and that qualified teachers with experience can negotiate for it. If universities are making returning teachers with qualifications take summer jobs, they are screwing them, and it is a change for the worse. You can disagree with me, but can you refute my argument?

About the "entitlement" comment. I can't see what you are trying to get at. Yes, a teacher does have some power, can negotiate, and can call a spade a spade when public schools increasingly decide to roll back the 12 month contract to a 10 month contract.

If you want "entitlement," you got it with the people who feel entitled to shortchange the foreign teachers and pocket the difference. I'm probably just being "realistic."

It's a game of strategy being here

Indeed, the Art of war is a business manual.

These are fair points, and one which make teaching here quite attractive. I don't know where you are Riv, but I am presently in a 3rd tier country city (town is a better description!), and I have never had it so good!

Food and beer is cheap as chips,locals are easy going and friendly, I'll ignore the realistic posting of Warren, who says we should all be saving for retirement. Computers are cheap enough in China also, easy to get a new netbook should you require one.

I spent a year of my life busting a gut in the gulf, good money compared to the PRC, but the stress and boredom levels are through the roof. Also you won't meet so many friendly fellow expats as they all have the claws and knives out, and everyone is out there to promote themselves, and earn and save as much as possible. I would never do it again, esp. as there are no girlies to clap eyes on and no cheap cold ones, unlike here.

It's swings and roundabouts. Give me quality of life over working to live anyday!

This is standard practice, and for once not completely unreasonable

I agree that inherently this is standard practice, I disagree about it being "not completely unreasonable" however!

At my last job in the gulf, after I voluntarily ended my contract in June, I received two months salary for july and august as per the terms of my contract, and return flight home paid, all because this is the law in that place. They are making us homeless, if THEY decide not to renew, therefore compensation of a return flight (or money in lieu of flight!), and salary covering 12 months (even if 2 of those months arent worked) should be standard!!

Just my humble opinion...

I maintain it's a a scam (a devious stratagem for gain) because it makes foreign teacher's salaries sound much higher than they are (17% to be precise) as compared to universities that still offer the much more realistic and fair 12 month contract, and it essentially cheats the foreign teachers out of 1/6th of their due income for the actual work they did. Further, that money is probably going somewhere else.

I gather you have switched the argument to unis only! Might I suggest you stop tarring all Chinese employers with the same brush? Middle school work generally involves much less prep and no marking. IMO it's better to teach at middle schools. Money is earned for much less effort there if you avoid big cities. Teaching ability ranks low in the sticks as a rule. You're basically being paid for your western features - just great, isn't it? You'll also be more effective and less tired in class if you take a post that gives you a teaching assistant. Compared to Chinese middle school teachers, you would be more favorably treated. And the cost of living is much less in the countryside, but westerners are thin on the ground there. Not that it's necessary or advisable to meet them! Some of them are always complaining - they've an entitlement mentality!

There's been a bit of an ongoing debate on what the general practice is in China for duration of contracts at public schools. I finally tracked down this statement at Middle Kingdom Life:

Contracts at public schools and universities are typically 10 months in duration for the initial contract and are then extended for 12 months thereafter, such that foreign English teachers will be paid for the summer break if (and only if) they renew their contracts. However, foreign teachers with advanced degrees and several years of teaching experience in China may be able to negotiate an initial 12-month contract.

So, there it is. The 10 month contract is normal for first time, short term gigs (I WAS WRONG ABOUT THAT!), unless one has more qualifications and experience. But if one is continuing at a school it is (or WAS) customary to extend the contract to 12 months to cover the summer period. That makes enough sense to me, and explains why there are so many 10 month contracts. Therefor, it's only really a SCAM if one is continuing at a school and not getting the summer pay, and probably unfortunate for those of us who have the qualifications and advanced degrees to warrant not getting a couple month's worth of salary lopped off.

Lastly, contrary to some general consensus among expats, it isn't a take it or leave it situation. If one has the qualifications one CAN try to negotiate, and if one is staying one they SHOULD be covered for the summer vacation, just like all the other resident teachers.

Sorry Raoul, but I can't follow your logic. First you said it's a 10 month academic year, but you then acknowledged that Chinese teachers are paid for all 12 months including all holidays. Then you argued that the Chinese teachers are more valuable to universities because they are permanent employees, and therefor the schools are willing to invest in them. Just because there's a rationale for taking better care of the Chinese teachers doesn't mean the foreigners aren't being cheated if Chinese teachers are paid for July/August while their foreign counterparts are left in the cold. You admit it's "unfair," but won't call it a scam.

The question now is, if foreigners are being short-changed, why isn't it a "scam"?

One of your arguments was that it's always been this way in China. I took your word for it at first but decided to look into the matter. I found this on Middle Kingdom Life.

Foreign teachers at universities are paid two months in advance for the winter and summer holidays. For example, if the academic semester in the fall ends in the middle of January, you will receive two months' salary for January and February around the end of that semester. Likewise,

if you are on a 12-month contract

, most universities (but not all) will pay you for July and August at the end of the spring semester, usually during the first or second week of July.

So it appears that there is such thing as a 12 month contract (I've been on one for years), and probably always has been (unless I'm just really, really confused). And if THAT is the case, than the change to 10 month contracts is an opportunistic attempt to take advantage of unsuspecting foreigners, and with all the shortcomings I've mentioned before.

You never addressed how there can be a 6 month contact for either term, but not a 12 month contract for both. Isn't that a bit self-contradictory?

I maintain it's a a scam (a devious stratagem for gain) because it makes foreign teacher's salaries sound much higher than they are (17% to be precise) as compared to universities that still offer the much more realistic and fair 12 month contract, and it essentially cheats the foreign teachers out of 1/6th of their due income for the actual work they did. Further, that money is probably going somewhere else.

Most haven't caught on to this, which is why I wrote the original post. Clearly, there used to be 12 month contracts (if we trust MKL, and if I can believe that I actually exist and have had this normal contract), and it's becoming the norm now to cut out 2 months pay and laugh all the way to the bank. People should factor in the missing months of pay, and mentally adjust the proposed salary accordingly.

Another perk that my Chinese colleagues at my state middle school get is a free annual summer holiday excursion. It lasts for three days and everything is paid for by the headmaster. He even pays for all the entry tickets to tourist haunts that are visited. I went last summer, but I won't go again. It's too much like an old folks' outing, or a coach tour. Besides, I'm rather a loner! That said, about my job, which is the most important thing. It's a walk in the park. I never knew a teacher can do so little work in what is basically a part-time position with little stress for such a good salary locally. I am by no means a big spender, but in my county, I'm not skimpy either when I go shopping. Yet I still have loads of money left at the end of the month, month after month. That's the main thing.

Warren, there is no "security" for foreign teachers in China. It doesn't even cross their minds. I know it's a hard thing to accept- it certainly was for me- but it's the bottom-line truth.
Foreign teachers are simply a tool for making money, to be cast aside when no longer needed. We don't get tenure, and we don't get pensions or other retirement benefits. There may be a few exceptions to this (none I've heard of), but they'd have to be very few and very exceptional.

The hairs on the back of my neck stand up when I hear words like "sense" or "logic" applied to China. You're not going to find them in China, either...at least not from our viewpoints. If you try to apply them, you're only going to hurt yourself.

one will end up perpetually destitute.

May be...although I've seen lots of folks pull it off. Most of them work summer camps, or short-term training-center gigs, or do private tutoring to get through the summer.
Either way, the schools simply don't care. They want us to come in and do our 10 months, then beat it before it gets beaten for us. Some will graciously extend our Residence Permits if we've agreed to come back in the fall, but precious few schools are going to pay us for not teaching anything.

There's no shortage of real scams out there to talk about. This just isn't one of them. This is standard practice, and for once not completely unreasonable. We can either take the jobs as given, or not. Survival is our own responsibility, not the schools'...

I hear what you sayin', Warren, but I still disagree on the "scam" part...

1) Chinese teachers are paid for all 12 months...!

True. But Chinese teachers generally try to make lifetime careers as teachers at their universities. They get the basic Chinese benefits (which foreigners are only starting to see) and operate under a tenure system not unlike Western universities. They tend to be seen as relatively "permanent" employees, and the universities are willing to make some investment in them.

On the other hand, while some foreigners may try to stay at a university for a long haul, most just do a year, maybe two, and then move on. They aren't generally eligible for tenure, and tend to be seen as relatively "transient" employees, so the universities aren't going to sink much in the way of resources into them.

Unequal? Maybe. But Western universities tend to be the same with their short-term teachers.
Scam? No. I just don't see it.

Raoul, you may be right that this is the way it's always been FOR FOREIGNERS, in which case I just happened to land in the only university that pays foreigners for all 12 months and wrongly assumed that was the norm, but there's a problem with your argument that it has to do with the academic year.

1) Chinese teachers are paid for all 12 months (and also have summers and the long Spring Festival winter holidays)!

Why do they get paid for 12 months and foreigners only for 10 if the reason is the academic calendar?

Often we'll hear about how much more we make than the Chinese teachers, but if you cut out 2 month's salary (or, more accurately, 2 of the twelves installments of one's yearly salary) we're not making much more.

The other problem with the "10 month contract," is, as you've mentioned, a teacher would then have to go two months without pay every year, and either travel or find housing for that period, if the teacher wanted to continue on as a teacher in a government school. The teacher would also quite likely have to switch up jobs frequently. The result would be the virtual elimination of experienced teachers, because the job only caters to those wanting to have a short adventure and then go home.

The procedure here is actually quite similar to American schools where teachers have summers off with pay. It's not that they are getting money for nothing, but merely that their pay is allocated evenly over the whole year so they don't have to seek other employment in the summer, which in a normal/healthy economy could easily lead to losing most teachers to other positions they'd need to find annually. Sooner or later they'd hit on something better than the teaching job. The equivalent of what some Chinese public schools are doing would be to have Chinese teachers come and teach in American schools, simply cut out their summer pay, and call it a day.

Obviously the 10 month contract is only aimed at foreigners, because a government job in China is pretty permanent for Chinese citizens, and thus a forced 2-month period of unemployment for every teacher, and a yearly need to find supplementary work would be unfeasible for the communist party.

Thus, it seems logical to conclude that the 10 month contract, in relation to the 12 month contract that all the Chinese teachers have, is a SCAM, however old or widespread it is.

The only way to get around this appears to be to sign up only for 6 month contracts and then renew them, so that the whole year is covered. So the next question is, if you can have two 6 month contracts, why can't you have one 12 month contract? Unless there's something called a "4 month contract," but I've never heard of that.

In the end, if one is only paid for 10 months, one should adjust one's salary down as in the chart I made, because one is being cheated out of @ 17% of one's yearly income, no matter how you slice it.

I understand what you're saying, Warren...but actually this isn't even close to a new phenomenon...and not really a scam.

Universities and public schools in China run on a 10-month academic year. They always have.
Over the summer they have few to no students to teach.
Because of this, 10-month contracts are THE NORM for these institutions. Always have been.

It's important for expat teachers to BE AWARE of this phenomenon, and to plan for it- negotiate a 12-month contract with summer classes if available, or plan something else for that 2-month hiatus (travel, return home for a visit, find a short-term summer gig, try to save enough to get by over the summer).

But it's not a scam. If it were, I'd be shoulder-to-shoulder with you screaming about it.

Please don’t fall prey to the 10 month contract SCAM, which robs you of two months salary. It used to be safer to work at public schools, run by the government, than to work for private schools, which are bu$ine$$e$ and only care about anything other than profit if it will increase profits. Sadly, everyone needs a finger in the pie, and the pie is you. Enterprising Foreign Affairs departments and others have found ways to skim the top off your salary in government run institutions.

A government school should have a 6 month contract or a 12 month contract, and include housing for the entire period of either. All the Chinese teachers are paid for every month of the year, and so should you if you sign a year contract. The reason is that you are not actually paid on a monthly basis. You are paid on a yearly basis, and your salary is merely spread out over 12 months, just like every other teacher in the public school. If you are on a “10 month contract” your salary is actually being reduced by about 17%, because you are losing two of your 12 incremental payments.

Like all other teachers you are paid over the long summer holiday and Spring Festival, not because anyone is generous to you, but simply because your pay is distributed in monthly increments. You are never paid for doing nothing. It’s a simple process, but because foreigners don’t understand it and get screwed with their pants on, royally.

Think about it. If you have a 10 month contract, what are you supposed to do the other two months without pay, and where are you supposed to live if you are a returning teacher? I for one, have been on a 12 month contract for years, and a 10 month contract would force me out before a year was up, and also rob me of that 17% of my earnings.

Here’s how to look at your salary. One the left is your salary for 12 months, and on the right is your salary if 2 months are deleted.

12 month (real) contract 10 month (scam) contract
￥14,000 = ￥11,667
￥13,500 = ￥11,250
￥13,000 = ￥10,833
￥12,500 = ￥10,417
￥12,000 = ￥10,000
￥11,500 = ￥9,583
￥11,000 = ￥9,167
￥10,500 = ￥8,750
￥10,000 = ￥8,333
￥9,500 = ￥7,917
￥9,000 = ￥7,500
￥8,500 = ￥7,083
￥8,000 = ￥6,667
￥7,500 = ￥6,250
￥7,000 = ￥5,833
￥6,500 = ￥5,417
￥6,000 = ￥5,000
￥5,500 = ￥4,583
￥5,000 = ￥4,167
￥4,500 = ￥3,750
￥4,000 = ￥3,333
￥3,500 = ￥2,917
￥3,000 = ￥2,500

Finally, you should do us all a favor and demand to get your FULL salary, and if they say “it’s a 10 month contract,” than you can do the math and tell them what the REAL salary they are offering you is. Usually it comes out to about ￥1,000 a month (if you are at the 6,000 yuan mark, you will only be getting 5,000 a month if on the 10 month contract). On the upper end of the scale you can lose as much as 2,000 or more yuan a month.

Where is your money going? In someone else’s pocket.