Turnoi, crap for whom? I'm saying crap for louwai. I'm busy right now, but you can expect a lengthy reply to substantiate my post this evening. I think when we talk about 'crap', we should specify for whom it is crap, and why. I don't want it to be CRAP for ME nor for other FT'S who fly many miles to China! I will be happy to engage you on this one. Speak later, in public on the board, of course. I'll take this debate all the way, rest assured!