boxiangjiaopi
- 2012-04-11
Hold on a sec, the first reply i received from a post as boxiangjiaopi(do you know what that means?) was predictably from your good self. It is your want to sniff out any presumptuous little newbie and put him in his place. On this particular occasion you gave me chapter and verse about the advantages of Linux, while criticising FT's for accepting computers that come with the job and preloaded with Chinese spying mechanisms. It's hardly surprising you now accuse me of stalking you. Having a bit of fun with you maybe. Now come off it ,dear boy, you are equal to it, so please don't disappear.
Her Chineseship is a properly trained teacher. I taught in China for many years but am not a proper teacher. FT teaching in China is not a proper job but an extended holiday, so I agree with you, why do thirty hours a week at a rubbish training centre.
Right now, brush yourself off, dust yourself down, slurp some of that motherland beer and continue posting.
boxiangjiaopi
- 2012-04-11
Yes I got a free TEFL once, part of the agreement with a school that they give you one without you actually having to do anything for it. They churn those certificates out like sausages-they are supposed to be legal, but if you compare your certificate with one presented to another foreign teacher in the same school it will probably have the same number on it(they use the same few numbers)- It's about as authentic as a Khaosan Road one, and you don't get to flirt with a lady-boy.
San Migs
- 2012-04-10
Now let's get this straight, are you or are you not like 99.9% of FT's in China, an oral English teacher? Is it or is it not the job of the proper teachers, the Chinese ones, to teach the complicated stuff like English Grammar? Are you or are you not just a foreign monkey that the schools must retain for promotional reasons? Why do you think you're entitled to share in the bonuses given to the proper teachers, the teachers that have actually trained as teachers? Paying for a TESOL or TEFL course is not proper teacher training. I mean, the bloke that cleans out the toilets in your school has just as much of a claim on depriving the proper teachers(the trained Chinese ones) of their incentive food parcels as you do- none at all, because like me you are not a properly trained teacher.Now, Turnoi I understand, is actually a rare example of a genuine teacher. He has every right to gobble up them teachers' food parcels.
To address your post, and I have that right....
I am an FT in China, an oral english teacher at a middle school in a county level town. If the Chinese teachers want to teach that stuff, so be it, where was I moaning about that, personally I can't stand grammar, bores me silly.
These weren't bonuses provided by the school. This was a DONATION provided by the local government, the FAO's own words.
That milk could have been given to poor kids, or they could have bought textbooks, yes I did get one box of organic milk which I used for brewing up my favourite cup of breakfast tea and the odd coffee, that you resent me for getting one box of milk is beyond ridicule. If it makes you feel better I will give 100 yuan back to the fao, or the local commie party office, un-F*******-believable!
I didn't pay for my TEFL course actually, now that you ask, so, sorry to say, got it for free. But you will probably have a go at me about that. I did pay for my own CELTA though, so I guess that makes up for it.
Are you and your Chinese wife properly trained? What do you now do in England? Actually, it is wrong of me to ask you that, but you seem to be hectoring me, so I will respond in kind, as it is my last post on here, since you have returned to stalk me, under another name, and from the reclusion of coastal or southeastern england.
I will still keep all your postings pasted though, but I won't tell you where.
So long ace, you win, got too much on my plate at the moment for these boards which won't moderate you, thanks a bunch mods!
Laters yeah!!! Off for a few white russians after my one class this afternoon....and some lamb on a stick,lol, adios muchachos.
boxiangjiaopi
- 2012-04-10
I don't even know what EF stands for, so you must be confusing me for somebody else.
Now let's get this straight, are you or are you not like 99.9% of FT's in China, an oral English teacher? Is it or is it not the job of the proper teachers, the Chinese ones, to teach the complicated stuff like English Grammar? Are you or are you not just a foreign monkey that the schools must retain for promotional reasons? Why do you think you're entitled to share in the bonuses given to the proper teachers, the teachers that have actually trained as teachers? Paying for a TESOL or TEFL course is not proper teacher training. I mean, the bloke that cleans out the toilets in your school has just as much of a claim on depriving the proper teachers(the trained Chinese ones) of their incentive food parcels as you do- none at all, because like me you are not a properly trained teacher.
Now, Turnoi I understand, is actually a rare example of a genuine teacher. He has every right to gobble up them teachers' food parcels.
San Migs
- 2012-04-09
I knew you would reply, oh, thai lover. And here was me thinking you had sworn you would never respond to my posts again, lol, you are too predictable.
How is being back in England now? More boring and stale than China I presume?!
You did seem to hint in a previous e-mail that you liked to go cottaging- did you do that in Bangkok, or were you busy playing table tennis?Some of those Bangkok degrees are really quite authentic-looking. I understand they are copied from hapless foreigners who have lost their belongings.
I seem to remember you swearing that you'd never return to China and here you are slaving away in some shabby outfit where the Chinese teachers won't even give you a sniff of their food parcels??(the ones donated by the local communist part)
Cottaging...no thanks. I merely mentioned I don't like bowel surgery, although I might prefer that to working at somewhere like EF and living in Shenyang. But that is up to you.
I don't care if they are authentic looking. Like everything else in Asia, they are fake. But yes I guess they are copied from those who have lost their belongings, you are right there.
So what if I swore not to return to China? Turnoi came back didn't he. And I am leaving back to Europe at the end of my present contract, so.......not that it is any of your business or concern, Those teachers aren't as poor as you think!
14 hours a week isn't slavery, not by any means, try 23 contact hours and more office hours, like at your crappy EF place!!! I don't know who donated the parcels, nor do I care!!!
Creepy.Stalker.Troll.
boxiangjiaopi
- 2012-04-09
Do we all stop off at bangkok? When I came here, I did have a stopover there, but carried on straight to HK. Brought my degree and stuff with me from England, see. So no need to shell out twenty notes on a ponied up piece of copy paper on a steamy back road in Bangkok. But each to their own.
I have to admit those fellows are pretty darned clever!
You did seem to hint in a previous e-mail that you liked to go cottaging- did you do that in Bangkok, or were you busy playing table tennis?
Some of those Bangkok degrees are really quite authentic-looking. I understand they are copied from hapless foreigners who have lost their belongings.
I seem to remember you swearing that you'd never return to China and here you are slaving away in some shabby outfit where the Chinese teachers won't even give you a sniff of their food parcels??(the ones donated by the local communist part)
David
- 2012-04-07
It's amusing, yet also annoying, to see people with chips on their shoulders posting here for years to claim that EF is a bad school to work for, and that anyone who stays the distance must be a moron.
I've worked in China since 2007, and previously avoided EF due to negative postings; including Shenyang. I've now been working for EF Suzhou for over two years, and may stay a third. If I leave, it'll be because I want to leave China.
EF is a private language school. It therefore takes students outside of the school hours, which means evenings and weekends. If you don't like to work evenings and weekends, don't apply.
Saying that, with two consecutive days off a week and the other three often free until 5pm, it's not bad. Weekends start at 08:45 until as late as 6:30, depending on your classes. Still time for a social evening, if not too tired!
Do we work 40 hours a week! No! Standard 20 teaching hours, with workshops and occasional meetings on the schedule. Teachers plan the rest of their admin time themselves.
We have teachers who are happy to work here, despite not being tied to Suzhou, for over three years.
Teaching methods? Not bad. A bit overbearing when you first look and the books do have some errors, but so have "Cutting Edge", "New Headway" Etc.
The effort put into new material is pretty impressive, but time will tell how effective.
Is EF perfect? I doubt it. It's a Franchise business and as such the franchisee can 'go rogue' and abuse the system. It happens. It also takes EF a while to extract from a legally enforceable contract with the franchisee, by which time the damage is done and that school gives the company a bad name. Chinese investors take time to change their business model to suit how a school should work. It's a business, that needs profit to survive, but so do all businesses.
Interested in TEFL teaching? Look around, and ask questions. There are people on here who post about EF, perhaps even under more than one nickname, and maybe had a genuinely bad experience. They could also hold a grudge because they been dismissed, as I've had to do twice. The first time because the teacher was hungover once too often and the second time because he arrived late too often with no lesson plan or objectives, resulting in poor quality teaching. TEFL teaching is real teaching, just focused. It's not for everybody. In fact, if you intend pursuing a career outside of TEFl teaching, then don't stay too long as it's not a useful addition to most peoples résumé.
Personally, a poster on the internet posting over a period of years and blanketing a whole company (whatever company) in such a negative light seems a bit obsessive, and perhaps out of touch with reality. If you have a Mercedes Benz, your local service agent can be a bit of a lottery, as most dealers are similarly franchised. To say that Mercedes Benz are all rubbish is a bit of a stretch. Times change, people change, companies change. The same goes for EF.
Anyone having the audacity to suggest they are happy and work for a good EF school, and there are many, is said to work in a "Shangri-La". Unfortunately, like Trolls elsewhere on the internet, certain posters are sure to call me a "GW", moron, patsy or similar. Judge their contribution as you will. They can infer or state outright that they are fully qualified teachers much in the same way that I can say I'm a qualified barrister. I'm not, but one of our teachers is, and another does in fact have a degree in teaching, has worked in education all his life, latterly as principal, has planned and opened International schools in Asia, and is about to open another in China at a salary we regular teachers can only dream of. (BTW - in his humble and well-educated opinion, EF material is actually rather good.)
Post away. If you're going to insult me, or the other teachers who work here, please do come to Suzhou and say it to our faces. We're a nice bunch really: perhaps we can go for a beer!
David.
David
- 2012-04-07
You're not officially "Qualified to Teach English" unless you have a teaching qualification that says you do.
In Jiangsu, China, my visa manager tells me you must have a bachelor's degree, a TEFL certificate, and at least two years post-grad teaching experience. (The latter may soon be relaxed - waiting to hear.)
Also, unless the person has a Jiangsu-issued visa and work permit, they have to leave China and reapply, making getting teachers even more difficult.
As I understand it, different parts of China have different interpretations of the 'guidelines', depending on local economic and other factors. You may, therefore, find a job in China where you can be employed.
However, China has a difficult market to negotiate. There are agents and companies that will outright lie to you, or cheat you.
Be wary of "Travel and teach" offers. I've come across foreigners who were sold the idea of travelling to China and teaching as some sort of "holiday travel" or "community help" basis, accepting low wages for full-time positions, only to discover the agent has pocketed most of the salary as commission; essentially tricking the teachers. They have found themselves in a school with teachers earning far more for the same job, sometimes working illegally.
Look around, and use your own judgement on the quality of the information you receive. Like anything on the internet, more than in real life, trust nobody until you are absolutely sure!
David.
San Migs
- 2012-04-06
Most of us arrive in China after attending The Bangkok University, down The Khaosan Road, and we arrive at Beijing airport bristling with doctorates and pottery degrees, these having been obtained for about twenty quid a piece.
Now I think I know who you are, oh well, never mind.
Do we all stop off at bangkok? When I came here, I did have a stopover there, but carried on straight to HK. Brought my degree and stuff with me from England, see. So no need to shell out twenty notes on a ponied up piece of copy paper on a steamy back road in Bangkok. But each to their own.
I have to admit those fellows are pretty darned clever!
San Migs
- 2012-04-06
I have taken several English classes in college and scored high in them, and believe I am well qualified to teach English
It might be helpful if you could tell us what qualifications you currently have now, so we could further help you with jobs you could apply for.
boxiangjiaopi
- 2012-04-06
Don't you worry your head about being able to teach, young man, or about your lack of qualifications. Most of us arrive in China after attending The Bangkok University, down The Khaosan Road, and we arrive at Beijing airport bristling with doctorates and pottery degrees, these having been obtained for about twenty quid a piece. This is the academic avenue you should follow, if you do not have a genuine pottery degree. Bangkok is a nice little stop-over on the way- AND you might be lucky to be invited to a game or two of table tennis by the friendly locals-so, ,that way you'll arrive in China ,not only bristling with academia but as fit as a butcher's dog to boot. Anyway, there's plenty of centres/schools that will hire you if you show them a Boy Scout bob a job merit card-but once you get to China mind.
anonymous
- 2012-04-06
So I am curious. My teaching experience is less than one year. I am going on to my junior year of college in a few months. I want to teach overseas, however I do not meet the minimum qualifications I see posted on many of the companies websites I have found. I understand the general consensus is that all EF schools are sub par, as are most training centers, but I do not see any alternative to this option given my work experience and education levels. I have taken several English classes in college and scored high in them, and believe I am well qualified to teach English. So where can I go to get a non "bottom of the barrel" job? I really have no country preferences, although judging by the fact I've only heard China mentioned on this thread that may be the only area of expertise on this fourm. I appreciate your time!
Dragonized
- 2012-02-27
Let's just agree to disagree then.
Jetson
- 2012-02-26
Before you start criticizing and running your mouth off on others, why don't you sit back and think about the fact that there are people in this world who know more than you when it comes to certain parts of culture, language, and business. I have said some things like giving choice words to people who slander and degrade teachers who have had a bad experience. For example I haven't worked at EF but I have know plenty of people who have and they have almost nothing good to say about the place except for a few students they may miss. EF and people who have worked there have repeatedly come onto these forums and tried to bash people who criticize these businesses masquerading as educational facilities. As far as I'm concerned it's these types of people who start the arguments consistently and bring it on themselves and the world to see what kinds of goons they really are. If there is not even a right for people to talk about the shytty world of ESL education in china and the world in general what rights would we as teachers have left?
Hi Dragonized,
I'm trying my best not to offend anyone, or 'run my mouth off on others' - in fact, I'm the one who is being personally insulted by people I have never met.
This is the last post that I'm going to put on this site. It just seems impossible to write anything positive about the school I work in without a torrent of abuse and negative comments by people like you. Whatever your opinion is, and however you formed this opinion in the first place, the fact is:
This thread started a long time ago, with one guy asking about a specific school. The only positive replies about the school have been written by people who work here.
But, the way things work in your world is: "If someone's saying something positive about a language training centre, they are 'grovelling weasels', liars, idiots and cheats." This isn't exercising your right to free speech - in my opinion, you're abusing that right.
It's a real shame that forums like this are subject to this kind of nonsense. Still, I know that people are smart enough to weigh up the arguments that they see on forums, and not allow them to cloud their own judgement. The best thing to do if you're looking for information about a school is to get in direct contact with teachers who currently work there. A good school will be happy to provide you with contact details of several current teachers. Then, you can really ask specific questions and find out what it's really like for yourself.
I expect that the replies to this post will be something like: "no way man.... they'll give you fake email addresses of fake people that are just GW a-holes! don't trust them! i spoke to some dudes who worked at ef, and they hated it..." It's almost comical.
San Migs
- 2012-02-26
You - along with two or three other 'big names' on this forum - seem to have a lot of extremely negative things to say about a number of places that you probably haven't worked in (I know that you haven't worked for EF Shenyang), and a lot of extremely negative (and rude) things to say about people that you've never met
So what if I/we (the royal we?!) do. EF is crap and a place for people with low or no education and most educated and informed posters know and accept that as fact. If you are unable or unwilling to, then that is your perogative. Just don't expect others to like or share your rosy tinted view of EF and the private education system.
And you didn't say yet, San Migs... where do you work? And what's it like there?
I work at a public job. And I won't say where, because I value my privacy firstly, and secondly I just don't trust anyone from the UK who works at a training centre.
San Migs
- 2012-02-26
Well, here, (outside of teaching hours) teachers are free to organize their time exactly as they please.
Whatever you claim. But I prefer not to work evenings and saturdays. So you can save your 300 pounds a month and have your personal time invaded and owned by EF, thank you very much.
Dragonized
- 2012-02-26
You - along with two or three other 'big names' on this forum - seem to have a lot of extremely negative things to say about a number of places that you probably haven't worked in (I know that you haven't worked for EF Shenyang), and a lot of extremely negative (and rude) things to say about people that you've never met.
Before you start criticizing and running your mouth off on others, why don't you sit back and think about the fact that there are people in this world who know more than you when it comes to certain parts of culture, language, and business. I have said some things like giving choice words to people who slander and degrade teachers who have had a bad experience. For example I haven't worked at EF but I have know plenty of people who have and they have almost nothing good to say about the place except for a few students they may miss. EF and people who have worked there have repeatedly come onto these forums and tried to bash people who criticize these businesses masquerading as educational facilities. As far as I'm concerned it's these types of people who start the arguments consistently and bring it on themselves and the world to see what kinds of goons they really are. If there is not even a right for people to talk about the shytty world of ESL education in china and the world in general what rights would we as teachers have left?
Jetson
- 2012-02-25
Oh... just a wind up. Well, I fell for that one.
Still, are there any language schools which offer considerably more money, similar benefits and support to teachers?
You - along with two or three other 'big names' on this forum - seem to have a lot of extremely negative things to say about a number of places that you probably haven't worked in (I know that you haven't worked for EF Shenyang), and a lot of extremely negative (and rude) things to say about people that you've never met.
And you didn't say yet, San Migs... where do you work? And what's it like there?
San Migs
- 2012-02-25
Wow... 8 hours per week for 22000RMB? I suppose the high salary reflects more the cost of living in Shanghai, but it still seems like an amazing deal.
It's a wind up of course.
I suspect you know that as well, if not the dollar signs are spinning round in your eyes like a grovelling weasel who has found his lottery ticket out of going back home to pizza hut.
Jetson
- 2012-02-25
Well, here, (outside of teaching hours) teachers are free to organize their time exactly as they please.
Oh, GW stands for Grovelling Weasel. Thanks for clearing that up. I like where I work, so I'm a GW.
Where do you work, San Migs? Do you like it there?
San Migs
- 2012-02-25
I think that being able to save 300 pounds a month, while enjoying a lifestyle which allows you to eat out most of the time and be very flexible with your work hours is really good for a newly qualified teacher.
Except that you CANNOT be flexible with your hours at a TC like EF or all those other rubbish places.
GW=grovelling weasel. A species of subhuman commonly found working at training centres as dos'es or senior teachers. Or anyone who grovels to their chinese boss, in return for money.
Jetson
- 2012-02-24
I think that being able to save 300 pounds a month, while enjoying a lifestyle which allows you to eat out most of the time and be very flexible with your work hours is really good for a newly qualified teacher.
I'm sorry, but I have lived and worked in the UK, and 300 pounds a month is extremely difficult to save after you've paid rent, transport costs, bills, etc. That was as a DELTA-level language teacher in a good school.
Also, I'm not familiar with the slang on this forum - what is 'gw'?
Jetson
- 2012-02-24
Wow... 8 hours per week for 22000RMB? I suppose the high salary reflects more the cost of living in Shanghai, but it still seems like an amazing deal.
Would that be for an entry-level teacher?
Does the school provide additional housing allowance/accommodation?
Are flight and visa costs reimbursed?
Is there an annual bonus?
Does the school provide additional travel insurance? (I forgot to mention that EF does)
Are teachers required to carry out any other duties aside from the 8 hours of teaching per week?
Do you know if there are any of these schools in the north east?
San Migs
- 2012-02-24
and save perhaps 300 UK pounds a month
Chicken feed. Someone working a menial job in the UK would save more than that.
If you want to make money in teaching you go to the gulf or S Korea, not crappy EF in crappy shenyang!
More gw nonsense!!!!
Le Duc de l'Econnerie
- 2012-02-24
Try Cosmos University and Language Center run by Frank Zhang and his mate from Myanmar; it is based in Shanghai, you will only teach 8 hours per week and will receive a monthly salary of 22,000 RMB. They really do need people like you!
If there are language schools which pay considerably more than EF, and which provide better support for teachers - both financially, professionally and personally, and which are 100% dedicated to academic standards without any regard to making money... please tell me! As happy as I am working at EF Shenyang, I would certainly consider changing schools for that!
Jetson
- 2012-02-24
I have experience at EF Shenyang, and also one of the UK's top language schools, Embassy CES, where I worked for three years and where I attained a Cambridge DELTA. EF Shenyang is a pretty good place to work.
Salary:
The school offers a good annual salary increase, annual bonus, accommodation - or housing allowance, flight allowance and visa costs. Even at the very starting salary for newly-qualified TEFL teachers, you can enjoy a good standard of living here, and save perhaps 300 UK pounds a month. Teachers with more experience can negotiate higher salaries, and the annual salary increase is very generous. So, for teachers who stay here for a number of years (of which, there are many), the salary is great.
Working hours:
I'm not sure why the term 'long working hours' is being applied to this school. It's a very standard 20 teaching hours per week. Beyond those, teachers are very free, and only required to be in school for non-teaching hours when they are attanding workshops or doing a very minimal amount of class-related admin.
I don't think anyone is under any illusions about language schools being businesses. Of course they are. Of course they need to make a profit - otherwise, they simply wouldn't exist. In any language school, there is a balance between what is good for business and what is good for learning and teaching. This holds true for EF Shenyang, as it does for Embassy CES, which is one of the UK's leading schools - and as it does for every language school in the world. Of course, some schools fail to strike that balance well. Some schools are 100% dedicated to making money without any regard to academic standards. EF Shenyang is certainly not one of those schools.
If there are language schools which pay considerably more than EF, and which provide better support for teachers - both financially, professionally and personally, and which are 100% dedicated to academic standards without any regard to making money... please tell me! As happy as I am working at EF Shenyang, I would certainly consider changing schools for that!