You're quite right. Sparrow's logic does seem somewhat bird-brained. What a twitter!

"Shane has a policy of denying written references to its employees in order to make sure that this kind of information does not proliferate and hinder their recruitment process as this undoubtedly will do, not that this was my intent."

This is completely untrue. Shane does give references. What "sparrow" may be referring to is the fact that Shane does not issue "letters of recommendation" (open references). And why would Shane commenting on a teacher promote the proliferation of anti-Shane information? You do realise that when writing a reference, it's the school that er..writes it?

I'll agree with you on one point - you do talk alot of crap on this site including it would appear about who you think i am and what i do.

Oh very well, if you really must. Who are you and what do you do? Don't go on and on though, please; at my age I have a tendency to nod off. I only know what you are doing, upsetting honourable and esteemed Grovelling Weasel Exterminators on this site.

Even the new employee in the public latrines will be told he's a professional- and that he shouldn't leave his mop and bucket unattended in the urinal because it is not very professional

I knew you couldn't stay away forever. Your linguistic marker is too easy to identify in your posts under different sobriquets.

Perhaps you didn't come to China for those reasons and perhaps those positions where people can and do benefit from working with other professionals in their field would not be suitable for you nor dare i say available to you. Whatever your reasons are they are your own and if you can find a job or working holiday as you put it that can meet your expectations then good for you. I'm sure you'd agree that it's better to be in a position where you are happy.

I do hate it these days where every old tom dick or harry lays claim to being a professional. The word professional is certainly bandied about. Even the new employee in the public latrines will be told he's a professional- and that he shouldn't leave his mop and bucket unattended in the urinal because it is not very professional. No,you, we are not professionals. A professional wouldn't have the time to talk crap on this site like we do. You "teach" oral English like I do.

Perhaps you didn't come to China for those reasons and perhaps those positions where people can and do benefit from working with other professionals in their field would not be suitable for you nor dare i say available to you. Whatever your reasons are they are your own and if you can find a job or working holiday as you put it that can meet your expectations then good for you. I'm sure you'd agree that it's better to be in a position where you are happy.

3. finally there is a lot of research that suggests peer feedback is far more effective than manager feedback. Teachers just get used to the idea that they will be observed at certain stages of the month by their superiors. They begin to see it as a process rather than a chance to develop. Peer feedback often works best because individual teachers can empathize with one another and feel that they are sharing common experiences, successes and problems. I would doubt though that most foreign teachers would consider a TA to be a peer and i would also be surprised if many young female university students in China (the basis of your TA team) feel comfortable discussing teaching ideas with their foreign colleagues.

Bloody Hell! What you write makes my head explode. You don't come to China for peer feedback, and to feel comfortable about being periodically observed by you superiors. It's not a genuine job mate, it's a skylark, a paid working holiday. Take a leaf out of Silverman and Turnois book (on the other thread) Wayhey they seem to know how to fill their boots.

This Shane school sounds like a nightmare. This is my advice. Find yourself a good university where they give you a flat(hopefully with lots of Brits, they're more fun and less back-biting than other FT's.) Keep your head down. Never volunteer for anything. Get yourself a student. Silverman has got it all worked out; not one of your own students. Shane sounds like a nervous breakdown coming.

As the Director of Studies who "who only recently left, to the detriment of the school" (think you for that by the way)!! I feel that I have a few relevant things to add to this interesting debate. before I start I think its only fair to point out that I am only giving my personal opinion not that of the school (I left about 2 months ago - these are different issues that I am happy to go over in depth another time), and that I couldn't possibly comment on processes introduced after I left.

As Sparrow was quick to highlight the lack of "empathy" and "honesty", I think that this would be a good place to start. I feel that Sparrow is only telling half a story here. I was the person who employed him, and was the person who honestly told him that he would be given a 6 month second contract, as his teaching was "borderline", and I am pretty sure I was completely honest with him. Maybe he was right about the empathy part, because I found it hard to empathise with someone who I fought a long time to get a following contract for a new teacher, so he could show the school further development, only for him to resign about 3 weeks later as he found another position (obviously had been looking around while asking for a new contract he had no real intention of fulfilling).

as to the inexperience of the administration staff, I could only point out that it is a stone cold fact that every member of the administration staff had spent more time administering a school than he had teaching - so glass houses and stones etc. Now I would agree with him that I always felt that the Teaching Assistants deserved more financially, and better treatment overall as this would improve retention. However I think that we would also have to realise that they were paid reasonably, and like Mcdonalds etc. this was just one of those high turnover jobs. yet, there was a hardcore of dedicated, experienced and hard working TA's who did an incredible job. these were mostly university students of English or Education who wished to gain some experience in their field while earning extra money to get them through university. So yes, I would agree that treatment of TA's could have been better, but going rates in China were paid, and the "peanuts/monkeys" analogy is disingenious, and frankly offensive.

as to sparrow's analysis of the contract, I cannot accept his logic or grasp of facts in the slightest. His assertion that "teachers are paid for contact hours and required to sacrifice additional admin hours which are not paid for" is simply factually incorrect. While trying to protect commercial confidentiality, I can say that firstly Shane teachers are paid a competitive monthly salary based on a certain number of teaching hours or other tasks per month NOT for every class. While the school will pay extra if those hours are exceeded it does not deduct any money if insufficient contact hours were put on the teachers schedule. As regards to admin time, again Sparrow is being less than honest. A new contract was negotiated between the school and teachers. The teachers received a rise in salary to compensate for extra administration hours that was expected from them. The effectiveness of these admin hours can be debated, but whether they were paid or not cannot - they were. Also I would say that if you are paid a monthly salary, yet fail to fulfill part of the agreed duties of course there will be some punitive result.

Teachers were also informed what times they would be on standby, it was put on schedules and was written into the contract, which was signed by both parties with full understanding that it was a contractual duty. this is also true with holidays. So I would ask Sparrow three questions - firstly how many holidays do you think people in the real world with real jobs get in a year. Secondly, why did you sign the contract when it was clearly explained to you. Thirdly, why didn't you go to a public school, if holidays were so important to you? with regards to unpaid leave, it is true that we didn't give it to people who just felt like having a few extra days off but rather to allow teachers to finish contracts early to get cheaper flights, compassionate leave etc. The actual criteria for this area was clearly laid out in the school's procedures manual (I wrote it myself), and in my time was strictly adhered to. Just because we said no to some people does not mean that it was done on a whim or "favourites" were played.

When Sparrow asserts "The majority of the educational materials are older than most of the students that attend Shane and currently the school is trying to implement a new syllabus but doesn’t have the insight to realize it will require an entire over hall of the IT systems as they stand." I would almost entirely agree with this, except for the fact that the previous and current management team spent months looking at new materials to replace books that were honestly not fit for purpose (I personally wrote syllabi for 12 new books), though his point about the state of the IT in the school is well taken.

Wider, more relevant and interesting points were raised by Philip and Magister. with regards to TA's observing teachers, I can add how I saw it during my time as DOS. Yes, I asked Ta's to occasionally observe and give feedback on teachers classroom performance (as opposed to, and in addition to a formal observation procedure by the DOS, ADOS and Senior Teachers of the School). I did this for several reasons. Firstly - we had a problem of teachers who were "playing to the gallery" i.e. they would really turn it on when they were being observed but go back to some unacceptable practices afterwards. Secondly, feedback was asked for when concerns were raised about teachers performance. I must point out that Chinese managers would simply collate the information and pass it on to the DOS or ADOS, because maybe their interpersonal skills were not up to the standard of talking to teachers directly without unintentionally offending them or offering viable solutions. These two foreign managers would then decide if any of the points raised were valid, and if any further action was needed. These judgements were based on a combined teaching experience of around 20 years, and I can honestly say that we decided that the points raised were invalid and "panic" as many times as we decided that action needed to be taken. I would partly accept that some TA's were not experienced enough to give feedback, but I would also add the idea that some of Sparrow's TA's had been in more classes than himself, and had worked/were working with teachers who were vastly more experienced/able than himself. I would also add the analogy "I don't know anything about tennis, but I know a good shot when I see one". Some TA's maybe didn't do a high level of training, like the 80 hour certificate Sparrow had, but they had spent hundreds of hours of being in a classroom with CELTA, PGCE or Trinity trained teachers and knew what a good class looked like.

Shane english School, Kunming is never going to be Eton or Harvard, but honestly it will look after teachers, pay what was agreed on time, and keep visas up to date. It is a secure and good place to come and work, in a potentially dangerous job market. Despite leaving, I would still highly recommend it.

I think that you make some valid points particularly concerning the role of a Teaching Assistant. And indeed many of the assistants employed by Shane Kunming are relatively young and inexperienced. Therefore you are quite correct to assert that experienced teachers would (and should) feel that such people are not well qualified to make critical assessments of foreign teachers.

However the issue here is not one of ‘assessment’. The purpose of the information gathering fulfilled by the teaching assistants at Shane is to provide a level of feedback based on specifically identified criteria rather than on subjective opinion. In this respect it is reasonable to believe that university graduates are more than capable of fulfilling such a task, as opposed to providing a critique or an evaluation, which clearly they are not. Of course this information is fed to the Chinese management and where there is legitimate concern the situation is raised with the foreign management. Further formal observations may then be arranged, which are without exception conducted by experienced and qualified teaching personnel. If remedial action is required such as additional training for the teacher, this is then arranged. The intention at all times is to support the teacher in doing his / her job effectively, and to enhance the quality and reputation of the teaching product. It is also worth noting that the majority of foreign teachers employed by Shane Kunming are themselves rather inexperienced, and for some (like the writer of the complaining article) it is their first teaching job. Therefore the role performed by the teaching assistants in this respect is quite objective, and despite the expressed view of the writer, actually serves to protect the teacher from any unjust and unqualified criticism from students or (in the case of Shane Kunming) their parents. Regardless of what the writer of the original article assumes this procedure is not malicious, nor is it some kind of management stick to beat the teachers with.

It seems that you have misunderstood the objectives employed through the use of the teaching assistants at Shane. Therefore I believe that your assessment of the management at Shane is wrong and vicariously taken from the highly personal and subjective views of a disgruntled teacher.

It is an inescapable fact that observation and assessment play an integral role in the life of a teacher irrespective of whether they work in the private or the public sector. Indeed it would be both negligent and counterproductive for any schools’ management to ignore this. Having worked at Shane Kunming I can say that the vast majority of foreign teachers accept the TA’s role as being beneficial without feeling in any way threatened. Perhaps, like the use of performance enhancing drugs in sport it is usually those who have most to hide who attempt to criticize or discredit the system.

Certainly I would not recommend Shane Kunming if you are a teacher with no regard for your own teaching standards or for your students progress. If however you are serious about wanting to teach English and wish to develop your skills, and also enjoy plenty of free time whilst doing so then I am sure that the students, teachers and management at Shane will make you feel very welcome.

As a teacher who completed a one year teaching contract at Shane in Kunming in 2011 I would like to respond to the comments made by Sparrow which I feel are lacking both in balance and objectivity.

All Shane schools in China operate under a franchise arrangement. Therefore with each school (or group of schools) having different owners there can be wide variations in governance, even though the core syllabus and teaching methodologies employed are notionally the same. The Shane schools in Kunming have been operating under the same ownership for around ten years, and have during this time had a total of three incumbents of the Director of Studies position. In this respect Shane Kunming operates with stable and consistent management within an industry well known for its high turnover of staff.

The management structure at Shane Kunming consists of both foreign and Chinese management and for the most part it is the foreign management who deal with the foreign teachers, and the Chinese management who deal with the Chinese staff. Largely this arrangement works well and avoids many of the cross-cultural misunderstandings experienced by western teachers that are prone to arise where the management structure is 100% Chinese. Because of this split arrangement there are occasions where the communication between the two sides falls down slightly but in general it works well and all staff can easily understand the division of responsibility and the reporting structure. The accusations made by sparrow concerning the managements supposed ‘incompetence’ and a lack of ‘empathy’ are highly subjective and somewhat misrepresentative of the real situation. Certainly there are young staff in some of the administrative positions, as there are in many companies, and these people are paid at market rates (which for natives are of course quite low in China). Clearly the writer fails to understand the commercial nature of business and perhaps still believes that ‘money just grows on trees’.

The writer also complains that the school uses classroom assistants to gather critical feedback, and that “These teaching assistants, with little or no experience, are then set about the task of assessing the teachers and advised by the owner to be as critical as possible.” Clearly it is in the interests of the management, the students, and ultimately the teachers for observations to take place. Formal observations are made by the Director and the Assistant Director of Studies every two months or so, and therefore Teaching Assistants are also asked to provide feedback on the teachers they observe on a more frequent basis. This is done not with any malicious intent as the writer alleges, but rather it is a way to obtain information especially in instances where students may have leveled complaints about a particular teacher. Perhaps the writer’s defensive position belies an issue with the quality of his teaching.

With regard to the contract, again I feel that the writer’s comments are unfounded and misleading. The contract allows for a maximum of 13.5 contact hours per week with additional administration hours during which time teachers are required to prepare lessons and take part in other legitimate activities. All in all the total number of hours required for teachers to be on the schools premises is never more than 20 hours a week, which is generous indeed. Additionally many of the teachers actually have schedules where their actual contact hours are less than 13.5 a week. In such instances teachers are not required to be on site but are expected to be available on ‘standby’ in the event that another teacher is unavailable to teach at that time. The writer accepts that it is ok for the school to allow him to not teach a full schedule but pay him the full wage irrespectively. However he then believes that he should be paid extra when the school requires him to be available for the hours he is contracted to work in the first place! The holidays are as stated in the contract and anyone signing the contract knows the situation before taking the job. Again if the writer believes this to be so ‘paltry’ he should not have signed it and instead should have sought employment with of the other schools he describes which allegedly offer 2-3 months of paid leave.

Shane Kunming is by no means perfect. However as a place to work and teach you could do much worse. Teachers are treated fairly and in accordance with the contract they sign. Furthermore they always receive their pay on time and in full (something that not all schools manage to do). The Shane school in Kunming is going through a process of change whereby systems and materials are being updated. As the market for private language schools in China is becoming increasingly competitive so Shane has to evolve in order to survive. Sparrow, the writer of the article clearly has a personal axe to grind which in all likelihood is probably due to his own personal shortcomings. I would also add that teaching at Shane Kunming was (at the time of writing) Sparrows first and only teaching job in China, therefore the relative suppositions he makes between Shane and other schools in China can be discounted. Unfortunately in his review of Shane Kunming he reveals far more about his own lack of maturity than he does about the true nature of working at the school.

For those wishing to teach children and seeking a decent school with a pleasant atmosphere I would recommend seriously considering Shane Kunming.

Compared to other schools in China I suppose you could do worse than Shane Kunming and comparatively it’s not too bad so I would just like to put forward a personal analysis for any teachers looking at this school as a potential employer.

To begin I would like to speak about the administration of the school. Unfortunately incompetence abounds and honesty and empathy are nowhere to be seen. Teachers are considered to be commodities to be used at their discretion. The admin is awash with young Chinese that have had little or no administrative experience whatsoever and this is due to the owner’s inherent need to pay the least money possible to these employees and thus he has a high staff turn around and no real consistency within this department. Peanuts and monkeys and all that.

Unfortunately this filters down to our classrooms where youngsters are employed with the promise of being exposed to foreigners while we are set with the burden of on the job training with no acknowledgement thereof. Considering the high staff turn-around this becomes somewhat of an issue and takes away from our supposed purpose of teaching. These teaching assistants, with little or no experience, are then set about the task of assessing the teachers and advised by the owner to be as critical as possible which is a little disconcerting.

The contract is something worth considering as well. At first glance it’s pretty fair and the pay is pretty good for a Chinese school. As with many schools, teachers are paid for contact hours and required to sacrifice additional admin hours which are not paid for. The catch here though is that any assigned admin hours not completed are deducted from the salary at the contact hour’s rate. Also any time off other than the 2 days off per week are considered standby time and once again are not paid which leaves any moment open to a call to come in at their discretion for whatever arbitrary task they feel like assigning. Paid vacation is limited to 22 days a year and doesn’t sound bad but is in fact inclusive of public holidays which usually amount to 9 or 10 days a year leaving a paltry 11 or 12 days per annum. Unpaid leave is at the discretion of the admin and subject to inequality as these decisions are generally made on the basis of relationships as opposed to professional discretion. When compared with public schools’ 2 or 3 months of paid leave this becomes quite laughable.

The school itself was built by the previous Director of studies who only recently left, to the detriment of the school, as he was able to balance the educational side of the school with the financial side. Since his departure though the focus has become entirely financial and this doesn’t sit well with those of us who are trying to educate. The majority of the educational materials are older than most of the students that attend Shane and currently the school is trying to implement a new syllabus but doesn’t have the insight to realize it will require an entire over hall of the IT systems as they stand. Basically there is little to no foresight due to incompetence at the highest levels.

Overall it certainly isn’t the worst of the lot but certainly has its quirks. If you’re looking for a short term contract and don’t mind being commoditized, Shane is feasible. If not, well ………