Why do you not run that company in your own home country then?

Looks like I did a good number on you my faithful lacky SM. Please come to my office for your reward at your earliest convenience. It is brown, you like sucking it and resides down the crack of my ass.

You can be as defensive as you like but the OP's post had context and detail, all you've done is accuse him of being on drugs and a crackpot - the only defence a lacky can ever give.

I worked in that crummy place too, I was a little higher than an SM, at least - I was offered the position for regional and told them to stick it.

I think the OP is referring to the fact that going all the way to Sanya at the companies cost for what actually goeas on there is a joke, especially when the company is making other cutbacks. Yes, I have been to Sanya and sat listening to the bearded hermit and Cherry spouting crap. No, people don't sit around drinking and socialising all day. It is SM training. The point I can agree with here is that flying all the lacky SM's to the far South of China for an all expenses paid training and reward for all their hardwork when the company cannot provide whiteboard markers to the centers is outrageous and tipifies the complete lack of any 'business' understanding of those in control.

The only required quality of an SM in Wall Street is to shovel the companies shit with spin and like it, QED.

The only real requirement of a Foreign Trainer, because they are 'NOT' I repeat 'NOT' employed as teachers, is to pass that same spin onto the students and make them like it, QED.

I challenge you to put it any other way with detail and fact that does not simply involve you getting both defensive and offensive without context... 15:LOVE

I gave up a six-figure (USD) career offer (received only a few months ago) to stay on in this position. Good people, a fair company, a meaningful career field, and an interesting place.

I just choked on my f**king muffin. Look dude, It is pretty clear from your posts so far that the respect you have for anyones intelligence here is 0. But seriously, you honestly expect people to believe that you gave up a six figure US dollar salary for that of a WSE SM.

For those unsure, an SM's salary is about 25,000RMB per month before tax and social security is paid out. On top of that they recieve a yearly bonus, maybe. I think you know where I am going with this. Needless to say convert this to US Dollars and it isn't anywhere near six figures.

This at least has the validity of telling us something important about you:

1 - You are as thick as pigs shit and WSE did one hell of a job on you to convence you tpo give up such a figure and stay
or 2 - You are as thick as pigs shit and WSE did one hell of a job on you to think that you could spin such Bullshit and expect anyone to believe you.

SO which is it, thick as pigs shit or the latter, or is that the former lololol

Sorry guys....you all can complain all you want, but it's all just a massive circle-jerk that's making only you feel better about not being good enough to work here at all or last here long term. You're not saving the whales, righting any wrongs, fighting against any grave injustices, or changing the world in any way. You're just a bunch of negative ESL teachers that, from my experience in the ESL industry, are par for the course - complaining about anything they can think of to complain about, can't get a girlfriend or a decent job back home, so you came here ("here" being Asia and/or this internet forum).

"So you admit to having 'methods' that don't really work."

When you learn to read, please point our where I said that. (But if you'd like to drop the strawman arguments, we can continue.)

"Why have any of these methods in the first place?! What you mentioned just suggests to me that your methods simply represent unorganised and inconsistent planning. You are welcome to try to explain your methods in depth and try to prove me wrong."

I have better things to do than explain the decades of university SLA research to you. Again, go learn to read, then read it yourself. His name is Stephen Krashen.

(I'm not providing Jules an "extension number" his lazy self can easily go look up on his own, and I'm certainly not doing the same for you.)

"But, it seems that have admitted that it is so much of a mess that you struggle to even find the correct words to describe it!"

"...that have admitted that..."? I'll make you a deal - Prove to me that you're a competent ESL teacher and I'll cut and paste all the stuff you requested above. LOL.

(And thanks for proving a point I made in another comment that some ESL teachers are just not fit to do the job. Really....thank you.)

"Also, when a teacher shows concern about the state of the curriculum, you don't care. I think
that will put off quite a few decent teachers!

The least he should do is refer him to the right people! When I start work at any new
company, it can be expected for people to at least give me an office extension number
even if they are just being lazy. After all, we are all supposed to be working on the
same team, right?"

Let me tell you what is "lazy" - Not looking up a number or email address that is readily available to you, and you readily know about, on multiple internal company directories already. It's also stupid (the SM isn't going to stop everything he's doing to wipe your nose, so you're just prolonging the process by not taking initiative). I'm a manager, not a maid.

And no, when you make more unnecessary work for me (that you can easily do yourself), we're not on the same team. You're working against me. And when you quit the company, we're definitely not on the same team.

Fact - Jules didn't care about WSE. He thought he was the smartest person in the room, and nobody could penetrate that frail little belief of his. Our company culture, just by way of operating, deliberately weeds out these kind of people. It's no mistake he's gone.

Fact #2 - There are a lot of great teachers at WSE that are very happy. It's not an accident that we're one of the largest ESL employers in the world (and in China), that we pay near the top of the range, our teachers are well-trained, and the overwhelming majority complete their contract (average teacher tenure = 15 months....so basically, one-fourth renew for another year on average).

Feel free to complain all you want - we'll stay successful in the meantime. I'm absolutely certain that all your complaining on an obscure internet forum is having a direct impact on serious world issues. It might even save the whales one day!

Believe what you want. I talk to the students everyday. You bang away on a keyboard like a true internet warrior.

I'm sure if you just post a few more comments, Jesus will descend from Valhalla and validate you for saving the whales. I promise - just a few more comments!

I Worked for WSE Shanghai for 6 months in 2015. Virtually every teacher there, if you can call the role teaching, was unhappy. This company is terrible, and even knowingly keeps on certain psychotic managers as long a they keep the money coming in. The training was not very good either, the trainer is a pedant for CCQs to the point of being condescending. If you are thinking of working here, my strong advice is don't . . .

We've gone from 5% profitability to 13% in the past three years

Indeed, which correlates quite nicely 'coincidently' with the amount of time that Wall Street have been stripping away at the amount of money they actually put into the business.

Had and still got many friends who have worked at WSE. Before when Carlyle had it and now under the Pearson umbrella. I have no conjecture about Wall Street elsewhere in the world, I would have to guess that things in a country like France would mean a stricter following of rules and regulations within the EU, therefore happier staff. What I have been told on many occasions, which also correlates with many an online story is a very different picture. I've observed the centers where I live when waiting to meet friends, interviewed or at least spoken with the service managers in centers over time so certainly seen and heard enough.

Allegedly, Annual xmas/new year parties taken away in 2012 after being first delayed with the promise of a bigger and better party to coincide with the re-branding of the company. The party never happened and WSE have not held an annual regional party for the staff since. They do apparently treat all their center managers, regional's and directors to a lavish stay in Sanya every year all expenses paid!!

All centers new build and any which are refitted, streamlined to the core. Low budgets to the point of leaving equipment out of action such as projectors, a complete stop on the hire of ANY foreign teachers for a considerable period of time leaving many centers understaffed and students angry at the fact that their study helper from the speaking center is teaching their class or that the sales person is hosting and open corner, giving service manager positions to Chinese staff by way of the study helper route which undoubtedly mean a lower salary and certainly means a much more rigid and regimental authority guiding the teacher. Do I need to carry on with more or shall we just say point made.

In my opinion Wall Street bleeeeeeds teachers these days. Probably got something to do with why they have once again started to hire, that was a over a year ago now though, but also considered/have started to hire from countries that they once would have not.

Oh one juicy cherry I forgot to drop, the complete turn around WSE made upon the yearly bonus.... This was last year or the year before I think. Merry Xmas everyone, thanks for all your hard work, oh and by the way - no one will be getting their bonus for years in etc. this time, instead we have created this new and exciting way to do it. Excel, in other words create tons of English corners at home and spend most of your free time doing stuff for WSE, and if your manager puts you forward you might get something in your stocking, SHOCKING!

In my opinion the only thing that Pearson appear to have been spending money on is marketing bumf and some, again in my opinion after taking a gander, mediocre additional courses, such as professional English, which is a complete and utter joke according to those who actually used it in a class. Aside from having very little use in the first place the whole thing is apparently mis-matched and so badly edited. Missing cards and/or cards which didn't correlate, the whole thing starts at quite a low level, Waystage I think and by all accounts, students who can barely manage sit there completely bamboozled in the main. Mastery level was what made me laugh when I interviewed, i understand they are still using it now!! The most shocking and disgusting looking set of material which is actually from the day of the Carlyle group. It's badly written, admittedly by WSE to their students and promise of new material has been on the agenda for years as the students miss out, feeling everything has stopped. It just sat there in horrible grey folders all torn and dishevelled next to some of the newer stuff, like a rotten tooth in mouth full of pearly whites.

I hear the same story again and again. Salary received on time, always. Workload, shocking. Implementation of working procedures, shocking. Cutbacks, shocking. Staff turnover, shocking. I also hear 'some' positive comments too so let's try to be at least fair in talking about those too. People report having fun working there but that has generally come from people who I know work point x shifts, in other words less hours for less pay. No issues to worry about being paid but I have heard horrible stories of people now left, including the country who have been messed around attempting to get back that which they are owed in deductions. One guy has been fighting to get it back about three years or something silly now, fat chance by the sound of it.

I know China can be a tough old nut when it comes to finding a place to work where your either not on the run from the PSB because the bastards put you on the wrong visa, or ripping you off, running out of money etc. There are some really REALLY shitty tales of injustice here and all over the community, but there is no way I would be prepared to deal with that workload. You can easily work around the clock elsewhere and earn more money than that in ANY big Chinese city. I believe WSE knows full well the conditions that many suffer trying to teach in China and I believe they engage in an active plan to take advantage of that fact wherever possible. Just like a lot of, again in my opinion, large and greedy corps who only do 'what they have to do' and not 'what is moral or they should do'. Just like the 3 year old meat getting into Mcdonalds last year. How, Why? because regardless of what laws exist or not in China, they only did what they had to, no more.

Rant over

Just more dodging responsibility on your part. You have learned the "art" of inflating numbers which has been a problem in western corporations for a long time now. I am sure you'll eventually manipulate your way on to the real wall street index in the future. All you had to do was waste hundreds of hours of time from at least a good several thousand people naive enough to pay for your "teaching" services. That is also merely in one region. Doing the math, that's like murdering 3 people to get what you want. To call your company a mafia style, cronie driven facistic corp would be an understatement.

Quick Q ~are the problems I've been reading about with WSE indicative of the system or of just a few isolated centers? When I've asked around, most people have said it was a horrific place to teach years ago, but it looks like it may have turned things around just recently ~more respect between management and teachers and improved problems with pay. What's the consensus?

You better do not look for a teaching or deeching job in China.

And who said I was making a judgement on ESL in China. I was making a judgement based on the fact that there's four years worth of ranting between the same group of people over the same topic. Don't Wall Street have these centers world wide? I took a look at their website and they state that they do. Seems a pretty big animal you've spent all this time arguing about.

The average Joe has boards like this at their disposal. They need not worry about putting a place out of business or bringing out vengeance demons to play, they can simply warn other teachers to avoid making the same mistakes.

Given I said I was looking into ESL jobs overseas, I'd say that's very likely. And who said I was making a judgement on ESL in China. I was making a judgement based on the fact that there's four years worth of ranting between the same group of people over the same topic. Don't Wall Street have these centers world wide? I took a look at their website and they state that they do. Seems a pretty big animal you've spent all this time arguing about.
I hate McDonalds, but I'm not going to spend half of my life pressing keys moaning about it on a board, they're not going anywhere. Why try and do something constructive if you feel so strongly and have a TV show do an inside job and show them for what you say they are.

What do you think would qualify you for deeching in China?
Being white? Being British?
Then, I can recommend a zoo called WALL STREET CHINGLISH where you can act as a white monkey in a muppet show!.....LOL....hahahahaha

I came here accidentally via Google after doing a little research into ESL teaching jobs in China. You sound like a bunch of ex travelers (people playing at being real gypsies) who spend their lives between causing trouble over petty issues and arguing about them online.

Yes, I quite agree. Wall Street Chinglish is really a great place!
Just look at the pics from that beautiful branch office below....hahahahahaha

Really!! All of you!! 4 years of bitching and arguing about whether or not a company is one thing or another thing. Is this honestly what people do with their spare time when not working?
I came here accidentally via Google after doing a little research into ESL teaching jobs in China. You sound like a bunch of ex travelers (people playing at being real gypsies) who spend their lives between causing trouble over petty issues and arguing about them online.
Seriously who spends 4 years engaged in such an argument? So the general gist is that this Wall Street school is not very good to study at or work for, so don't work for them then and move on. Quite clearly four years of complaining on this board has made no difference to their existence so likely never will. This is owned by a British company is it not? So why not take all your complaints through the correct channels in the UK, tell the BBC, newspapers etc. They all love a good scandal. British and foreign workers exploited overseas by a British company.... It's got page 1 all over it.
At least get a life, you remember, life. That thing you used to have years ago before arguing with complete strangers became an addiction.

What is a GW?

LOL. Just proves my point even further with you and your new ideas, but wait you are not in possession of any. You lost the argument, no more and no less. Keep those banana leaves. [edited]

Mr. O'Shei, I should thank you for mostly not sounding like a bully with your posting. But you still put out a straw man type of argument when you say that i'm this gw type who is a braggart about having a tefl. Many countries require this, one of which is England where I am also applying for jobs at. There are training centers here in London as well, would you like to bash them and call pc's to come a knockin'? Desperation is not a good way to disprove someone with wild stabbings at who these mystery men you meet online are. I am right about the millions of misfits because China is not the only place that hires them, but you with all your credentials should know that by now. I shouldn't have to say this, but governments are the ones who support these businesses. Taking action politically is often the only effective way to end these kind of unethical business practices. Closing them down in one place only means another one popping up at the same place. I'd like to give the example of a game I played at fairs when I was a little boy. You would hit the mole or weasel coming out of different holes, and whoever could get the highest score can be awarded a small prize. Do you remember those games?

Turnoi, you exclude people as soon as they think differently from you.
Isn't it the way you were treated in your country of origin: Excluded because you thought differently?
Shouldn't the goal of any discussion or system be inclusion instead of exclusion

That's an amusing assumption to come by in the morning. I actually live in London, where every day I pass through the city and see all of those glimmering glass cubes of transparency that is the corporate world of business. There is the saying of, "Those who complain on corruption merely have not found the highest bidder for their services". To see all this vehement hatred spewed towards chinese companies suggests a want for what they may offer. I do not work at these training centres because I am still getting my education, one of which is a TEFL certificate. At the risk of sounding redundant, I merely asked a question to someone who has not bothered replying to me. Instead, I got a hooligan who tells me how to wipe arses. All of these lads who talk like this do not have exactly a good track record at bringing these businesses down in their own countries, do they? If western corporations were not successful with breaking a few eggs, then how could they get so copied with impunity around the world? What I'm saying is, some bloke who could not stop robber barons in his own home should not be giving advice about theft prevention. It's just easy to feel sorry for another country that has to take on millions of misfits who can not find their places anywhere.

There's so much GW bullshit in your posts...

The wiping arses thing... That's part of the board humour that relates to the behaviour of various animals.

You boast about working towards a TEFL certificate to prove some kind of legitimacy... Most GW types do that. Shame that most of those standard TEFL certificates can be completed on-line within a day or two. Half of the teachers I know, don't even bother getting one, the basic certificates are more or less worthless, as it is your academic degree that secures your visa, not your TEFL. Do a CELTA or DELTA if you want a certificate that is more respectable, lol.

People hate these companies because they have seen them fail to produce in terms of the education that they provide to students, the fact that they rip off the customer (this has been heavily discussed on Chinese television), cheat teachers, break the law... the list goes on and on. They don't really have anything to offer me that I would need or want!

As for your comments about people not bringing down these kind of companies at home, I wonder why? Oh, that's it... Those countries actually enforce laws and businesses tend to act more ethically. We have no reason to bring down shit training schools in our own countries, because there pretty much aren't any.

Finally, the 'millions of misfits' comment... According to the last census in 2010, there were less than 600,000 foreigners actually living in China. There are less foreigners in the whole of China than in New York City. That figure could be disputed as there are said to be apparently roughly estimated to be 200,000 illegally residing Africans in Guangzhou alone.

We've definitely seen a true GW style running through your posts, boasting of experience or qualifications in a desperate urge to prove your status, knocking their enemies down by describing them as as losers of some kind, absolutely licking China's arse without any sense of shame... Not to mention that you accuse anybody who mocks you as being a keyboard warrior type, don't you realise that you are on the interwebz boy?

Ooh, you walk around telling people to wipe their arses with banana leaves. I'm surprised you still have an unbroken face to show people. Real instant mix bad guy aren't ya? Just tear open that small package and out you come, bad flavors etc. all. I tell you what old chap, why don't ya give me your real name? How about you send me an email with a place where we can meet up in real life. Give each other a nice talk about all this? You want to rumble a bit, I don't mind getting my knuckles dirty at all. Or are you too whiny with that, little man? All I see is a scared mouse pissing around on some forum while riding other people's coattails for ideas. Want to know if you really are funny? Go audition at Comedy Carnival. You up for some real stuff or are you just all pony and trap?

This is a board for teachers not thugs. Your manner just shows why you are employed at a training centre rather than a university or public school.

We may remain anonymous due to fear of our enemies, but the enemies that we fear are more significant than some some jumped up twat like you that fancies a scrap.

Also, as a foreigner in China, I wouldn't go round acting like some kind of hardman trying to start fights either. You may notice that one on one fights are rarely done here, Chinese people always have people that they can call up and then you get 20 or 30 on one. You might call them pussies for this, but you'll emerge with injuries far more severe than bruised pride.

Foreigners with Chinese friends are not against going down the same route. Everybody that has been here more than 5 minutes has got familiar with that issue and almost everybody has at least one dodgy friend or friend of a friend, especially if they purchase weed from time to time.

As for your approach, don't you think it is a tad stupid? Nobody is going to give you a real name because there's always a wumao that is ready to rat on you to a government or police friend of that particular TC boss. We know what you types are like when it comes to fishing for personal info.

Not to mention that if you wanted to arrange to meet up at a certain place, it would be so easy to just lure you into getting stabbed in some back alley for my own personal entertainment.

Now, you may go back to watching all your shitty pirated Danny Dyer Football Factory spin off DVDs.

No, you won't get an apology from me, there is no reason for it. My post just made a bit of fun, and if you lack the humour to understand its intention, then it is entirely your problem. FYI, I've never worked for this Wall Street pretend "school" and never would. Before "asking", you should read all the posts in this thread carefully, and you will see that the reviews from people who have worked there before amount up to the same training centre shit that we all know from pretend "schools" in China like this one. And it's easy to see what's wrong with ALL of them and their crappy business models. You needn't tell me anything about this place of ultimate shit; decent foreign teachers work for public schools in China these days and not for places like this one.

[edited]

I remember this...
A correction - It wasn't from an "executive", it was from a teacher. His name was Jules. He was well-known around the company for being very negative. There wasn't a day when he didn't find something to complain about. This email was just an extension of his attitude from Day 1 in WSE.

About the actual email - If Jules here would've actually studied the Speaking Center lessons in depth, he'd have actually found much of the "non-synchronized" stuff he claimed wasn't there. I was an FT at the time he sent the email. I saw it. I opened the Excel file. I investigated what he said. His little Excel sheet he sent about how language not being covered was actually wildly inaccurate. The language might not have been stressed, but it was covered.

Secondly, Jules is a perfect example of an employee who didn't bother to learn how "The Method" works. The WSE Method isn't dependent on synchronization. In fact, it would be counter productive to do it completely. Students get bored with the "same ol' grind". The curriculum format intentionally changes, repeats, synchronizes, and then un-snychronizes (your welcome for the new word!). Additionally, perfect curriculum synchronization would lead to less accurate language acquisition assessment in encounters. Some target language covered in the Speaking Center isn't covered until two encounters later. Why would we always do it immediately? So the student can brain-dump it after class? Great idea, Jules (not)!

Thirdly, he complains that an ASD doesn't do anything about it. Guess what? That's not his job. His job is, simply put, to ensure that students' contracts are getting serviced. He isn't a curriculum developer. He's got more important things to do than cry like a little girl with a skinned-knee about curriculum minutia. The guy has 10 centers to help run.

In summation, what happened was a generally negative person with little knowledge of the big picture looked for something to complain about and (surprise!) predictably he found it. And the only people that cared were like-minded, knowledgeable people. And company was wildly successful for not listening to him.

So you admit to having 'methods' that don't really work. Why have any of these methods in the first place?! What you mentioned just suggests to me that your methods simply represent unorganised and inconsistent planning. You are welcome to try to explain your methods in depth and try to prove me wrong. But, it seems that have admitted that it is so much of a mess that you struggle to even find the correct words to describe it!

Also, when a teacher shows concern about the state of the curriculum, you don't care. I think that will put off quite a few decent teachers!

The least he should do is refer him to the right people! When I start work at any new company, it can be expected for people to at least give me an office extension number even if they are just being lazy. After all, we are all supposed to be working on the same team, right?

You class your company as 'wildly successful?' Your company's presence and market share seems to be nowhere near as big as it used to be, you can tell that just by taking a bus through certain areas where branches are based/used to be based. I don't exactly see lots of students walking in and out of the doors! Not to mention the reports that have been posted on various ESL boards in the past!

Wall Street is wonderful - well, I am talking about Wall Street in NYC. They produce so much fine toilette paper there that they only use for banking and speculation purposes. But real Wall Street's cheap copy in China. Wobble Wabble Wall Street pretend "school" is not so wonderful. In fact, it is a horrible place where they even lack the toilette paper they have at real Wall Street offices in NYC. You seem to be a guy who can do without toilette paper. So, do you use banana leaves instead?....hahahahaha

How bad is it at these places with foreign teachers not getting along with the rest of the staff?

I remember this...

A correction - It wasn't from an "executive", it was from a teacher. His name was Jules. He was well-known around the company for being very negative. There wasn't a day when he didn't find something to complain about. This email was just an extension of his attitude from Day 1 in WSE.

About the actual email - If Jules here would've actually studied the Speaking Center lessons in depth, he'd have actually found much of the "non-synchronized" stuff he claimed wasn't there. I was an FT at the time he sent the email. I saw it. I opened the Excel file. I investigated what he said. His little Excel sheet he sent about how language not being covered was actually wildly inaccurate. The language might not have been stressed, but it was covered.

Secondly, Jules is a perfect example of an employee who didn't bother to learn how "The Method" works. The WSE Method isn't dependent on synchronization. In fact, it would be counter productive to do it completely. Students get bored with the "same ol' grind". The curriculum format intentionally changes, repeats, synchronizes, and then un-snychronizes (your welcome for the new word!). Additionally, perfect curriculum synchronization would lead to less accurate language acquisition assessment in encounters. Some target language covered in the Speaking Center isn't covered until two encounters later. Why would we always do it immediately? So the student can brain-dump it after class? Great idea, Jules (not)!

Thirdly, he complains that an ASD doesn't do anything about it. Guess what? That's not his job. His job is, simply put, to ensure that students' contracts are getting serviced. He isn't a curriculum developer. He's got more important things to do than cry like a little girl with a skinned-knee about curriculum minutia. The guy has 10 centers to help run.

In summation, what happened was a generally negative person with little knowledge of the big picture looked for something to complain about and (surprise!) predictably he found it. And the only people that cared were like-minded, knowledgeable people. And company was wildly successful for not listening to him.

Thanks, I'm Nichalia_Schwartz@wsi.com.cn. Appreciate it!

Hi Muncher! I work at Wall Street, actually, and didn't see that email... but I would LOVE to get my hands on that Excel which has discrepancies between the lessons and the student manuals! The one mentioned in the email you posted. Do you have that file?

Thank you so much for that email, Muncher. I have to ask, was the sender's initials E.M.?

I finished up on my 1 year contract as an FT with WSE in August in one of the Southern China cities. While no doubt it is a professional company to work for, and no worries about pay on time etc, the concerned raised so far are valid.

1. Image image image! We were visited every 1-2 months by 'the image guy' who was pendantic- down to ensuring we used 4 pins per paper on the wall in each corner, not 2 or 3! I was duly reminded of this one day when putting up the English Corner schedule. I too was actually reprimanded for wearing 'dressy sandals' in my training (only closed in shoes allowed) but of course, no dress code is given until you arrive. So AFTER you've done your year's clothes shopping at home!

2.And speaking of English Corners *shudder*.....I had 4-5 to prepare every week. And despte the service hour provided, there is no time for EC prep other than in your own time. So finish at 9pm, home at 10pm after an 8 hour day then have to pump out an English Corner for the next day. I was so over it!

3.During my year I too found discrepencies between the target language expected in an Encounter and what the students had studied. This last year I was told that HQ wanted to update the manuals so to bring any problems found to the SM. When I spoke to him about it, I was just told that it was already covered, perhaps I hadn't elicitied properly. These were quite advanced language skills that students had no warning about and were expected to pull it out of their rear ends during classes! I got to the point of rewriting the lesson plans for those units and avoiding the language altogether, therefore, having to sweep it under the carpet.

4.On the flip side, I did have to get 2 medicals done due to a mistake on my part back home. But WSE did reimburse me both medicals, with all receipts provided.

5. In March I got really sick with bronchitis. It was a challenge to get days off without feeling 'guilty' about taking time off. I did work for a couple of days in the early stages of it and it nearly killed me! Thankfully I had no issues with getting my treatment reimbursed. Though no sick days provided by the company, and only 60% pay IF you provide a medical certificate.

As someone said, sure, work for WSE if you badly need to save cash quickly. You work up to 6 days a week (and half days off don't count, let's face it, what can you really do up until 4pm when you have to get ready for work?), 2 consecutive days off if you are REALLY lucky and barely any holiday time. There simply IS no time to spend all your hard earned cash!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thanks for the laugh numb nuts.

Thanks for the update, chum. Now let's all avoid WS and its like in the PRC. They're all rubbish employers, every last one of them, EF included, of course! Chinese-based training centers are the absolute dregs @ the barrel's bottom.

ha, ha, sums it up pretty well. you made a good decision to bail early.

I have heard about Wall Street since I was teaching in China. I have also heard about the absolute OUTLANDISH prices they charge parents to send their kids there. I have heard that parents' will pay up to 20,000 rmb's per season or semester to send their children there. I guess that's where all the fancy furniture and the chairs, tables, etc. come in. That doesn't take away the QUALITY of the school, which is to mean that they don't have an education reputation that's ANY BETTER than Aston or English First. All they do is sound good. Like "Wall Street" symbolized quality in education or something lol.
Wall Street is a place where people sell stock and do the banking for the world's finances. It's a place of business, not education. This school plays on the ignorance of the parents' who only have a "tourist" view of Wall Street and don't understand what it really is.

The only thing that Wall Street English has managed to do that's similiar to firms on the REAL Wall Street is rip people off big time out of their hard earned money by playing on the general ignorance of the masses. From what I have heard they can be also very PICKY with the fioreign teachers (i.e. FACE, if you don't look like a certain foreign group you may not be considered).

If you don't mind the typical nuiances of a training school and you want to get lots and lots of money they by all means go there as an ESL teacher. But if I was a parent I would NEVER for the life of me send my child to these types of schools.

I guess you heard wrong. I work for them and at no time have we ever taught children. It's nice when you see people really doing their homework before commenting on a subject.

And yes we are very picky about our teachers, as far as qualifications are concerned at least. Tell me, if Wall Street is picky with ethnic background and/or appearance then how come they employ teachers from just about about each and every country in the world to work at their centers all around the world? Any teacher working for Wall Street can transfer to any other country of their choice. I was working in France. I have worked in Germany too. Now I am spending some time here in China. Seems that many similar places have a bad reputation in China and it appears they have earned it. Remember something. Wall Street was started in 1972 in Italy, long before China was even capitalist and ESL was big business here. It seems more likely to me that many of these places have simply attempted to model themselves on Wall Street and failed. Don't be so quick to categorize. Wall Street is probably the only language school which is different from the pack.

Allow me to cut to the chase:

Skip this company. They should be banned, at least in China!

For Teachers, if you have a degree, hire on at a Chinese University. Commercial training centers are profit making machines. You are a commodity and will be treated like one. The “high salary” promised is just an illusion once you pay your housing and other expenses. AND they will work you like a dog.

For potential students, buy Rosetta Stone. It’s a fraction of the cost and the exact same method of teaching. In fact, it appears that Wall Street English’s (WSE) “unique method” is nothing more than a copy of “Rosetta Stone’s” program. You’ll be sitting in front of a computer with a headset for most of your “training.”

In an effort to appear to have value, WSE offers a 1 hour (really, only 50 minutes) stage check lead by a “teacher” called an Encounter (four students participate). “English Corner” and “Social Club” are two “sessions” that can be achieved simply by speaking to any foreigner on the street (for FREE!). WSE simply has (fairly) good marketing. Nothing more!

My experience at Wall Street English was perhaps, the worst work experiences that I’ve ever had in China in the past 20 years. It started off poorly, and moved south very quickly settling somewhere in the vicinity of hell. Let me preface this by saying that I am a Ph.D. Candidate with extensive experience teaching English in China (top tier universities and international businesses). I took this position to relieve the boredom of downtime while working on other things and, fortunately, didn’t need the work visa or the money.

My “interview” with Alicia at the Wangfujing location was initiated via “Skype” while I was still in the US and lasted more than two hours beginning at midnight EST. I was asked to prepare a lesson plan, then teach it to her over the phone (a ridiculous situation!). She spent undue time drilling me with questions like, “how could you have said that differently?” and “what other words could you have used?” (Repeated to ad nauseam) Since I was not given the proficiency level of my imaginary student, the exercise was one of futility. I made the fatal mistake of blowing this off, thinking it an isolated case of incompetence.

Things continued downhill from there. With more than 4 months to arrange the necessary paperwork for my “Z” visa (a Chinese work visa), WSE dragged their feet waiting until last minute. When the documents were finally dispatched from China, the “expat specialist” urged me to call DHL (courier) and tell them to expedite the delivery! As though THAT would speed the deliver? Too late. I received the package seven days after my flight departure date! Needless to say, changing a ticket in the US is extremely expensive! I bore the cost of their incompetence.

While still in America and after checking with WSE, I arranged the requisite “medical exam”and other “tests” having been told that the costs would be reimbursed by WSE. They were not (about $200 US). Only costs incurred in the Chinese clinic THEY recommend are reimbursable. As for their medical insurance (as I found out upon arrival), you must pay all costs prior to treatment, and then reimbursement occurs only if you’ve been taken to a hospital on their “approved” list (maybe!) No one in the office seems to know what hospitals are “approved.” In an emergency situation, I’d say you’d rather not care about an “approved” hospital! Fortunately, I had international health insurance — coverage from the States, a more reliable option.

I received my “welcome” package via email a few days after I arrived in Beijing. This consisted of a training schedule, code of conduct, and dress code. Yep — that’s right! The dress code is presented AFTER you’ve arrive! I’m assuming most people pack clothes from home and forego the purchase of a new wardrobe upon arrival, but we’ll get back to this little faux pas.

WSE will provide paid accommodations for a week while you find an apartment. Based on their earlier incompetence, I decided to forego the free “company accommodations” and go directly to my suite at a US based hotel chain. In retrospect, it turned out to be a good decision as the others in the group told me of their woes in “Hotel Hell” (their words, not mine). In fact, one of my colleagues told me that he checked out after one night. I’ll refrain from speaking of their experiences as I did not have the pleasure (or horror) of experiencing this myself and can not attest to it, but have little reason to doubt their accounts of this nightmare.

Contrary to popular belief, China is NOT cheap! When you DO find an acceptable apartment, you must sign a one year lease and pay three months rent in advance. Many places also require a security deposit in addition to this. You will also be responsible for utilities, internet, phone (usually cell) and household items (linens, etc.). If you leave China early, you do not get your money back! Nor do you recover medical exam, visa fee, picture fees, and other extraneous expenses (not to mention your airfare, which isn’t reimbursable in any event).

The “training” period at WSE grew from 5 days (at initial inquiry) to 6 days, then from 44 hours to 47 hours. We were required to spend an additional full day at the center to work out administrative issues, unpaid. The morning of the unpaid day was reserved for those who did not get their medical exams in their home countries. In the afternoon, we were taken to ICBC Bank, and left there to open a bank account, as electronic transfer to ICBC is the only means of receiving your salary. We were left without interpreters; no one at the bank spoke English. Hence, our job was to just sign the papers placed before us and hope we could figure out how to get our money OUT of the bank. WSE only deals with one bank and will not recognize any other bank in Beijing. Period. If you have another banking relationship in China, forget it. (Can you say, “kickback?”)

The company “training” was horrific! There was absolutely no instruction on company methods or policy at all. I’ll provide one example that can be applied across the board: We were handed a “test” on the “WSE Guarantee” and asked to answer the questions. Then the “trainers” started to ask us how we responded to each question, correcting us as we went along. A bit frustrated at this cat and mouse game, I finally asked if we would have benefit of at least being able to READ the document at some point in our “training,” at which the “trainers” responded, “it’s on the internet.” It might have been nice had we at least been informed of the topic of discussion before hand and of where we might find the information. Every aspect of the training was presented in similar format: Test, review of answers, correction, find and learn the information yourself. (Sorry, we’re not going to teach you, tell you where you might find the material, or even disclose the topic of discussion. We’re only going to test you! You don’t need to be smart, only psychic). One exercise involved us logging onto the computer to review a student lesson. The computer equipment malfunctioned and the software didn’t work properly forcing us to “skip” portions of the lesson. “Classrooms” were noisy and distracting as they adjoined each other with only partial dividers, and the computer animated lesson skits were caricatures of incompetent or immoral Westerners — a bit insulting (but quite funny!).

There was an inordinate amount of time dedicated to corporate structure, driving home the message that “Foreign Teachers” were at the bottom of the food chain. Our “trainer” emphasized the “importance” of knowing who the executives were (yes, she used this EXACT word!), something that most teachers couldn’t care less about! But alas, we went over this more than a few times, even being tested on the names of each person in an executive role and building an organizational chart out of cut-outs!

On the last day (before a “monitored” class where we are assessed as “teachers”), we finally got to see one of the “binders” that contained the lesson plans, vocabulary, and exercises for each “lesson” in the program. Seeing this up front could have eased the training process, turning six days of boredom into two. No one on staff was bright enough to have figured this out. They just “follow company policy” like mindless drones.

About this same time, I received my “part-time” (25 hours weekly) work schedule, surprised to see that after having specifically requested a 3 day work week, four days maximum, I was scheduled for a 5-day work week, three weeks out. (From morning to evening Saturday and Sunday and late evenings three more days of the week). My two days off were not back to back, but randomly placed within the calendar week. When I questioned this, I was told to discuss it with the NEW service manager in a month. Effectively, they told me to “suck it up” for three weeks, then make it the new guy’s problem.

Moving back to the “dress code” (as promised), on my third day of “training,” one of the “trainers” informed me that my shoes were a problem. The fashion police didn’t like them. I wore flat black suede tie-up walkers (brand new, $100 US), an appropriate shoe for navigating the rough terrain in Beijing. For those who have never been here, the sidewalks are treacherous, filled with rubbish, missing tile stones, holes of all sizes, missing manhole covers, and other impediments to a safe commute, not to mention that simply crossing the street is a bit like playing “frogger.” (Think back to the insurance!) Being in training for 8.5 hours per day with an hour commute each way, I had no time to shop to buy “smart shoes” had I possessed the inclination to do so (the shoes I wore were not specifically prohibited in the dress code, but were covered under the “or anything else we don’t like” clause). Consequently, I was approached again on the 5th day of training as to the purchase of “smart shoes!” It appears that there was a fixation on my shoes, of all things! Having been made to feel extremely uncomfortable, I asked the trainer if he was suggesting that I leave training at 7:00 pm, then go to shop for shoes into the wee hours of the night. He admitted that he was only taking direction from the center director, a woman named “Cherry” who lacked the decency to introduce herself, instead sending two underlings on separate occasions unduly escalating the issue.

While endeavoring to remain as positive as possible and speak only good things inside the company (even though the tenured “Foreign Trainers” based at Wangfujing had little nice to say about their own company!) in the end, I decided that I no longer wanted to play a role in this company — it was clear that we operated on different intellectual levels and I had no intention of “dumbing it down.” I did not bother going back on the final day of “training” (a monitored “encounter” session where teachers are “evaluated”). Effectively, I quit. And not a minute too soon. However, let all potential applicants be forewarned of the following:

WSE’s response was to email me two days later to tell me that they were terminating my contract (the ONLY competent thing they did, albeit a bit late. I quit two days prior!) They said that I had to leave the country unless I secured another visa (I happened to have a valid Business Visa in my passport, a bit uncommon for your average English Teacher, but as I said earlier, WSE was a time filler for me). They offered me no assistance in making arrangement to return home (not that I needed help, but YOU might!) while detaining me in Beijing for a FULL SEVEN DAYS while awaiting my salary (I’ll expound on this fiasco later)! Since I was paid in cash, there was no reason to delay me another week. Again, I was fortunate to have had other business to attend to, so it was no problem for me, but it might be a problem for YOU adding another SEVEN DAYS hotel stay to your expenses. Prepare a plan “B” as WSE will NOT assist you in any way, shape or form should you decide that you do not want to spend a year in hell with this company.

When I arrived SEVEN DAYS LATER for my appointment to collect my salary for the days worked, I was presented with a document stating that I was being terminated for “poor performance.” I modified the document to read that “I resigned” but was immediately informed that if I wanted to be paid, then I’d better sign it (can you say, “coercion?” or maybe “extortion” is a better word?) I told the “expat specialist” that the document was completely untrue, and then asked her if it was company policy that all employees should act in a truthful manner. She insisted that I didn’t complete the probationary period and it was company policy to have all employees who did not complete the probationary period sign a letter of incompetence prior to receiving their pay! No longer wishing to argue with her, I signed the document, albeit with someone else’s name! So, in the end they have a document that does not contain my signature.

Additionally, they retained my “Foreign Expert’s Certificate,” a document that belongs to the Foreign Expert, NOT the company. When I asked her for it, she said it was “company policy” to keep the certificate. Reputable companies will give you this document. Companies like WSE will use it for coercive purposes. What they were trying to do was to ensure that I would not be able to move to another company in China. They acted in a very spiteful and vicious manner.

In Summary, WSE is more concerned with IMAGE than QUALITY. They sell “bling” (shiny stuff!) Teachers are a commodity and there is absolute no regard, at all, for their expertise or welfare. As a commercial enterprise engaged in revenue generation, their motive is profit and every “educational” function is just another opportunity to extend a contract or sign a new student to generate more revenue (bonuses are tied to throughput, even on an instructional level!) If you are desperate (or foolish) enough to take a position with WSE, get your own international health insurance and hotel until you can find an apartment and be prepared to have plenty of cash on hand in case you decide to move on to a new company. Further, be prepared to pay all of your expenses out of your own pocket (about $3,000 USD).

WSE makes lots of promises to their foreign teachers and delivers on almost none of them. IF YOU HAVE A DEGREE, TEACH AT A UNIVERSITY. You will be treated well, given decent accommodations, and a salary that will surpass that which is offered by WSE once you factor in all of the out of pocket expenses and hidden costs associated with your employment including airfare, housing, utilities, food, travel, internet, laundry and a HUGH chunk taken in “taxes” which includes “social insurance” for “retirement.” Additionally, should you decide that the job is not for you, a UNIVERSITY will act responsibly and assist you in making arrangements for your return home, pay you for the work that you completed on the spot, and refrain from engaging in illegal activities such as coercion and extortion as is the “policy” of Wall Street English.

It seems as the weather gets hotter, the weasels at training centres come out of the woodwork and onto esltb.

Let's hope the weather gets cooler fast. I'm tired of reading the same old BS time after time!

First I resent the seemingly implied fact that working for Wall Street means I am not a teacher and secondly, there are many things which do not appeal to me in life Mr. Motivator, many things. I do no however then choose to put those things down simply because they do not appeal to me.

Why is my post equally as bullshit? That would require our information and experience to be equal. It is not. I actually decided to go and find out about my prospective employer and have now had the experience of working there. What has the OP got? 2nd hand info from someone else which was probably told to them anyway and maybe, just maybe walked past the odd center.

Your comment is also just as pointless and misguided. Rubbish Chinese training center. I would never defend a rubbish Chinese training center because that is exactly what they are. No materials, no standards when hiring teachers or Chinese staff and no morals on acceptable business practices or ethics of any kind. I wouldn't work in one for those very reasons and frequented one such organisation briefly until I very quickly realized the mistake I had made and ran through all the glass windows screaming.

Perhaps you should, instead of attacking me for giving my opinion go and find out and then see if your opinion does not change. Maybe working at such a place would not be suitable for your lifestyle but I bet your overall opinion would change of Wall Street. You choose to tie everything together and label it as one thing. Believe me if Wall Street was anything like the shite hole language schools that seem to be everywhere I would NOT be working there.

Again I love the way you categorize without any real justification whatsoever. Chinese training center. HAHAHA If Wall Street is a Chinese training center. You even work for the Chinese, I don't I work for a British company. Seems to be one small fact people are forgetting. Chinese owned - Chinese mind - Chinese BS - Unhappy Laowai. At least a lot of the time, hence the abundance of posts across this board in relation to the topic. What do you think one of the reasons I went to work there was, to put up with Chinese BS where the boss is god almighty and the employee a speck of shit? Do me a favor that is what I left behind me.

[edited] I have posted about places like that trying to warn people on this very board in the past. It's funny how pretty much everyone on the attack right now was right behind me when I had something bad to say about an employer, regardless of any evidence which may have been there. Suddenly I am a weasel now eh.

You people are unbelievable you really are. I have posted my opinion on my employer anyhow. That's my opinion and this is an open board so sue me.

Adam, what are your qualifications? If you knew anything about teaching then you'd know that taking anybody doesn't result in great results - either for the student or the people doing the teaching. This board is for teachers. Perhaps such a scenario doesn't appeal to them?

Your post is equally as [edited]: Making excuses for rubbish training centres, get a public sector job.

wse - they'll take anybody if they pay the money.

What a [edited] statement to make. Of course they will, they are a business. Exactly how many businesses are picky enough to turn away revenue in the current economic climate?

At the end of the day the FACTS are all that matters, not some speculation or hearsay posted by someone who has never even been into a Wall Street center.

40 Years of business, 600 centers Worldwide, international government recognition and teach Harvard Uni business classes. Yes, quite clearly a fly by night back street Chinese fishbowl language school. HAHAHA.

I think some of you have been in China too long. [edited]

I've taught at/teach at universities and an international prep school, and even though I've never taught at Wall Street, I get the feeling I'm glad I haven't.

Two of the rudest, most obnoxious students I've had the displeasure of teaching both proudly announced at the beginning of their courses that they studied at Wall Street (one for four months, the other for one year). I have no idea how Wall Street teachers could have endured teaching such students; moreover, I'm pretty pissed off that they created such impolite little sh*ts for me to teach.

Wall Street is, after all, in it for the money. And even though they claim to prepare students for work in a professional atmosphere, the two students they gave me, had horrible attitudes and behavior.

Thank you Wall Street English (Guangzhou).

Hey Dragon,

For some real fun, get hold of one of their franchise packets. That's a good laugh too. I also had a talk this PM with someone that was involved with them as it pertains to the types of people they hire and their policies are highly questionable at best. There is nothing whatsoever different about them than Shane or any other ESL mill out there other than window dressing and a public image which is really a scam in and of itself.

My post is the same now as the second I wrote it EG :-p As far as I am aware, there isnt an option to 'edit' posts when I read, or re-read them. You must have been drunk.

Point taken, I did read it was about a lack of ethics. That was detailed, but I would like more details about the points mentioned before I would consider applying. That may be personal to me ... but it may also be informative to another reader.

Nick, you are right on. Good to see your informational post here. Now, get in shape so that we can discuss the fitness topic you have moderated before. I guess one needs to be in shape to discuss such a topic. :LOL
Cheers and beers

Having sent a few complaint letters of my own to the departments concerned at EF, I have realized that any international franchised operations are subject to the local ethical standards and especially money. After all, that is what drives the globalization and large international companies, isn't it?
Once, when I was an EF DoS :( , I met a chap who just came from Wall Street, a new EF development or something like that EF manager. Anyway, sorry but that's my only connection to this company you are talking about.
Cheers and beers to deglobalization :LOL

I have heard about Wall Street since I was teaching in China. I have also heard about the absolute OUTLANDISH prices they charge parents to send their kids there. I have heard that parents' will pay up to 20,000 rmb's per season or semester to send their children there. I guess that's where all the fancy furniture and the chairs, tables, etc. come in. That doesn't take away the QUALITY of the school, which is to mean that they don't have an education reputation that's ANY BETTER than Aston or English First. All they do is sound good. Like "Wall Street" symbolized quality in education or something lol.

Wall Street is a place where people sell stock and do the banking for the world's finances. It's a place of business, not education. This school plays on the ignorance of the parents' who only have a "tourist" view of Wall Street and don't understand what it really is.

The only thing that Wall Street English has managed to do that's similiar to firms on the REAL Wall Street is rip people off big time out of their hard earned money by playing on the general ignorance of the masses. From what I have heard they can be also very PICKY with the fioreign teachers (i.e. FACE, if you don't look like a certain foreign group you may not be considered).

If you don't mind the typical nuiances of a training school and you want to get lots and lots of money they by all means go there as an ESL teacher. But if I was a parent I would NEVER for the life of me send my child to these types of schools.