SCHOOLS AND RECRUITERS REVIEWS
Return to Index › GENERIC review -- but LOUD WARNING! - ESL school review
#1 Parent andrea - 2007-01-06
Re: GENERIC review -- but LOUD WARNING! - ESL school review

haha! teaching in china is definitely not for the weak! i chucked at your article only because I know exactly what you mean! while I have found a good school, at least in the 4 months that i have been here i have enjoyed it , there are ALL kinds of annoyances and frustrations on a daily basis. china is truly an amazing country and it's well worth everything to be here. i highly recommend scouring for ALL the information you can get and talking to teachers before coming. there are many good schools and many bad ones. DONT" go with a school that cant' get you a Z visa. these are usually bullshit operations with sketchy businessman behind them that care nothing about you or the students. TALK TO PEOPLE who have been teaching. do some research!! DONT" just go by what the recruiter tells you! check out the recruiters! be skeptical about everything. DOn't go through your university, this may sound bad, but all my friends who did this got really low paying jobs with crappy hours. good luck! DO YOUR HOMEWORK And you will find better schools, TAKE THE TIME! it's a big decision before you sign a one year contract

#2 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2006-12-22
Hang in there! - ESL school review

Dear fellow teacher,

I'm sorry to hear of your dreadful experiences. I've been in China four years and I can empathize with your frustrations. There have been a few occassions
when I've found things almost unbearable here.

It seems at times to be an on going struggle to keep sane here sometimes. Just when you think you have all the bases covered, something else springs up to give you a test. Those guys who play in those tv shows called "Survivor" back in the West have nothing on what we often go through out here. We are not trying to endure difficult conditions that have been concoted by a programme genius: this is the real thing!

Maybe, at least in my case, I'm exaggerating a bit. To be honest, I think that if I had spent all my time here working in private schools I would really be ready for the funny farm now. My advice to you is to obviously follow Fish's excellent advice about keeping a good diet for the next couple of months, and I'd addd to that the importance of a good nights sleep every night (sorry if I'm stating the obvious) , to help you endure your last two months.

If you ever consider coming back to China, I would recommend that you stay clear of private schools. The only real trouble I had with a school in China was with the one private school I taught at, and from what I've heard on the street and on forums like this a vast majority of the problems for foreign teachers arise while working at those schools. I've personally found public schools to be a much safer bet. They are by no means perfect, because penny-pinching goes on there too, but I've never had any serious contractual issues in a public school.

The major disadvantage of public schools however is that most of the time the salaries are quite low. Of course if you're not just here for money, but would like a rewarding teaching experience in China , then I think public schools are the best way to go for newbies. Don't sign a contract you are not happy with. If you think the salary is too low or there are other conditions you don't like, either negotiate for more money/ better conditions or just go elsewhere, otherwise you could find yourself feeling trapped, and miserable in conditions you're not happy with.

Once you've signed a contract you're reasonably satisfied with, at a public school (I particularly recommend colleges or universities in the South of China where the workload is quite low, and where you usually have no office hour requirements and are usually left alone to teach and live in peace), as much as possible don't give the school an excuse to muck you around. If you want them to keep their promises make sure you keep your promises. Just basically teach well and fulfill the hours you promised and the rest of your contractual obligations

I have found by practicing the above I have very few problems with schools violating the contract. If you get good feedback from the students, that filters through to the school leaders you suddenly find your maintenence problems get solved much more quickly and generally will have no problems with the contract. Basically if you keep the students "sweet" the leaders will endeavour to keep you "sweet". I've found this to be the case at ALL my public schools, finding things go smoother and smoother as the school year progresses.

I find 99% of the stress occours at the beginning, when neither party is sure of the other, and both the teacher and the school are battling to get conditions that they will be happy with over the next year. Foreign teachers though, shouldn't really have to battle. If they refuse to offer reasonable conditions go to another school. China is a big country, that is crazy for English. Let the schools worry about finding teachers. We don't have to worry about finding schools in China. Schools are like rice over here!

You don't have to boot lick (I'm definitely not into that). Just do your job. No problem, surely. Why would you be in China working for peanuts if you don't enjoy teaching anyway? Do what you enjoy as best as you can and sit back and watch your tree yield fruit!

That doesn't mean that you will be completely problem free. But if any issue comes up with the school and they drag their feet, your application to the job will give you ammunition. You can say, " Look, I've kept my promises, now you keep yours". I know this often doesn't work in private schools and I'm not speaking directly here to you "Exhausted American". From your posts I can see a dedicated teacher, who cares about his students, and enjoys teaching, but has unfortunately found himself working for a real bunch of shysters. The above advice is for newbies (teachers who are considering coming to China for the first time). Look for public schools!

Exhausted American, I wish you all the best and hope you are able to maybe turn things around down there. As for new teachers just make sure you come here with your eyes open. Do your research, do your best, and you will find that it is possible to enjoy a good teaching experience in China.

#3 Parent Exhausted American - 2006-12-20
Thanks to all for your thoughtful and wise responses - ESL school review

I want to sincerely thank everyone so far -- fish4esl, KJ, exhausted Brit -- for their thoughtful and insightful comments. In so many ways, I agree with most of what you say. For so long (I am over 50 years-old) I have tried to keep my original goal as the priority -- to teach those students who wish to improve their English as a key to a brighter future. As long as that quest is in play, I continue to receive tremendous reward from my students.

Unfortunately, at this point, it is matter of true survival. I have been ill every day since coming to this particular "college" a little over two months ago. As I mentioned perviously, I am paying 100% of my medications, drip treatments, etc., while the school pays nothing. If I cannot shake these maladies soon, my health is seriously in peril.

I have tried and tried to overlook so many challenging (to put it mildly) working conditions here and elsewhere in China, but it seems to get worse not better, as each year passes.

Is it right that I and the other foreign teacher should suffer with severe sore throats because we are teaching 6-8 periods a day in unheated classrooms (today's temp was 1C, and plummeting) and we must pay for our medications while the school "leaders" and "administrators" enjoy idling the day away in their heated offices?

Sorry for the gruesome details, but I have battled ongoing diarrhea for more than 30 days now (I don't have to tell you the toll that is taking on my health!)

After multiple visits to the hospital, boxes of various medications (all at my expense) -- little or no relief.

Today, I thought I could teach, but just before my first (8:00am) class I had an outbreak that sent me running to the filthy bathroom down the hall. Needless to say, I didn;t make it in time, and my clothes were disgustingly soiled (sorry, everybody!).

While the school scrambled to arrange a taxi to send me home, the students were anxiously awaiting me in the classroom. Of course, in my experience here, foreign teachers have no privacy (or dignity) concerning their personal health issues. When my students learned I was too sick to teach today (my smiling face obviously hides lots of ugly truths), naturally, they were very concerned about me.

Someone in my department took it upon themselves to explain my situation to the students. As I waited, shivering for the taxi to arrive, one of my most shy female students (about 19 years old) approached me and asked: "Are you diarrhea???" (It was hard not to burst out laughing!)

Yes, China is NEVER boring, but again, approach this place with great trepidation.

Also, it was comfirmed today after some investigaton by one of my previous students who is a law major in another city, that in indeed my present "college" was trying to arrange an illegal visa for me.

The almost total lack of professonal integrity and ethics is on the rise here, I believe.

I also urge you to read a powerful story from yesterday's edition of The New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/19/world/asia/19shenzhen.html?ref=asia

I LOVE CHINA and I truly love Chinese people, but I still contend that working here is a very risky venture.

#4 Parent KJ - 2006-12-19
Re: GENERIC review -- but LOUD WARNING! - ESL school review

Fish is right on in saying that China, while in the throes of change, is dynamic and emergent. And, in truth, neither he nor or I would suggest that there aren't a myriad of pitfalls to teaching here or multiple issues that need some serious ammending before it falls into the category of a great place to teach.

I think it interesting that the "lures" used by recruiters and schools to bait teachers are fairly effective though generally untrue, and that the truth would be better served if teachers were just simply told that there is an opportunity to create positive change. I like to think that when I positively affect a student's future, I am contributing to a snowball effect that will, even if in a small way, positively impact the future of this country.

Yeah, China is a work in progress. An unfortunate part of the process of that progress is that we teachers, more than a few of us- and more often than many people realize - are subjected to a host of problems that wouldn't exist in an environment where accountability was the norm. But those of us who choose to "hang in there" do so with our eyes wide open coupled with the hope that things will get better and the realization that it is possible that our efforts are worth it in the long run.

I don't mean to imply that I cannot sympathize with posters such as the one who began this particular thread. In fact, I've stated before that one should avoid private schools - at least until they've thoroughly investigated this whole scene. And it's an unfortunate truth that even the public schools and universities are profit motivated as well. Yet, if we concentrate on the task at hand and carry our good intentions into our classrooms, we can notice the rewards of doing so by looking into the appreciative eyes of our students.

True enough though, many teachers never quite find the right job here no matter how far and wide they travel. I guess I would define the right job as one where there is a minimal amount of interference and a maximum amount, as much as can be expected, of honesty. Admittedly there have been a few times in the last three years, that I've nearly bagged it all myself. But I've finally managed to find a position where my criteria seem to be met; albeit, not always to the degree that I would like.

So, good luck to those of you who will leave and those of you who will come.

Merry Christmas.

#5 Parent An Exhausted Englishman - 2006-12-19
Re: GENERIC review -- but LOUD WARNING! - ESL school review

I couldn't agree anymore, as I've suffered with 2 1/2 years of extra-curricular nonsense teaching in China. I've worked for 4 schools/colleges and had problems with every single one of them (apart from a primary school where i worked that wasn't even supposed to employ foreign teachers). Those contracts that we all sign are the biggest practical joke going. I will review my experiences at a later date but, for now, i just want to say to all you would be teachers: "watch out", and wish the poster better fortune in the future.

#6 Parent fish4esl - 2006-12-19
Re: GENERIC review -- but LOUD WARNING! - ESL school review

Infuriating, isn't it?

It's like, can't I just do my work? Can you just leave me alone for one effin' day?

If it's not some bureaucratic red tape non-sense, some meddling self-appointed supervisor (or more than likely appointed by a boss enclosed in their office) looking over every little thing employees do, or somebody that is feeling like they're having their pocketbook gouged just to have foreign experts around, it's all a load of crap sometimes.

Dishonest business owners, dishonest public officials (often on the take) dishonest employees, and dishonest customers, and no recourse for any of it. Except to be even more devious and conniving than the next guy next time.

So then, what's the point?

The point is that we try to find something that fits and feels like decency.

Often we've heard of "foreign experts" in China (or elsewhere) that have complained of low pay, poor work conditions, and being pushed into more of a business arrangement than what they were expecting. But the reality of it is that if we work for a private company, then we need to expect to be treated like employees and earn the company as much money as we can. And anyway we can. Be productive. Outsell the competition. That's the world of business, like it or not. Doesn't matter if it's China or Japan or America or Timbuktu. And the luxury of working in management is that they are the ones making the decisions of how that money will be made. And it's up to staff to do what has been decided. Just like in Japan, America or anywhere else.

If the OP goes home to America and gets a job as a teacher, the expectation will be that there is a high pass rate from his students. The expectation will come from parents, other teachers, administration, the media, and the public at large. Even the students themselves, eventually. If the teacher fails to accomplish that within a certain time frame, they are out the door.

If the OP goes to America and gets a job in the business world, the expectation will be for good results each and every month, year after year. Otherwise, out the door.

Dont' get me wrong. I go with the OP's assessment of the whole English-in-China thing as a crock most days, unless you can stick it out and find a niche for yourself. Yes, you will have to be on your guard ALL the time, but tell me of a occupation in which you don't? Generally, foreign teachers are well-paid in China, especially compared to their local collegues, often making twice as much. And are hired VERY often with less education, less training, and less experience. Often FTs are teaching in a university setting, with only a 4 year degree and minimal prior experience. You won't get in the door for an interview anywhere else unless you have a minimum of a thesis earned master's degree and currently in a Phd program. And tenure is years down the road. But in China foreigners with not even minimal qualifications are hired. And that's as much of a crock, and as dishonest, as anything we're often asked to do by them. When I see a 23 year old kid with a fresh history degree from Bumpkin State U, and no prior experience except pizza delivery, get a 9000Y a month job teaching business English in China, I think there's something pretty messed up with the system.

As far as China not emerging any longer, I might beg to differ. With a population of 900,000,000, that would be nine hundred million or three times the population of America, still living at the internationally accepted poverty rate of $US1 (one) a day or less, it can be considered emerging. China might have the 4th largest economy in the world, but it still has one of the very lowest per capitas. Business practices are emerging, the political culture is emerging, liberty and personal rights are emerging, treatment of the environment is emerging, healthcare is emerging. Even education is emerging, and anybody that works in education in China is part of it. That's the exciting part of it.

China is an incredibly dynamic place, there's not doubt about it.

Exhausted American - 2006-12-18
GENERIC review -- but LOUD WARNING! - ESL school review

Anyone reading these reviews from outside China, please think very carefully before coming to China! I have been a teacher here for almost four years. Chinese students are most times, extremely polite and warm-hearted towards their foreign teachers. In the years I have lived in China, I have received such an outpouring of love from my students; and in return, I give them my very best as a teacher.

If only teaching and working in China were so simple! Unfortunately, after almost four years, and working for a number of schools. I can also tell you that China is basically a very terrible place to work. Every school leader (ha!) Ive had the displeasure of working for has been a greedy owner who charges the students (their parents) LOTS of money and gives them poor service (from lazy underpaid administrative staff) and bad learning environments (no heat, filthy bathrooms, etc.) in return.

Dont be fooled by the chronic excuse China is a developing country! These guys are making PLENTY of money off of foreign teachers, and giving us -- and the students -- as little as possible in return. While my college students are paying on average an extra 10,000-20,000RMB per year for the special English program, they are given large class size (40-60 students), no heat, etc. The students and I are shivering, while the boss is sitting in his heated office with his personal chauffeur waiting outside to fulfill his every need. Disgusting!

My present contract states that I work for a college, which is a division of a large, public university, but in truth, it is NOT a public college, but a completely PRIVATE business, owned by one man, who can do whatever he pleases. He knows nothing, nor cares, about education. He is a business man, pure and simple.

Ive had to fight to get a decent blackboard, and basic equipment for teaching. Everything is made difficult and drains me of energy that should go toward teaching.

I hate to leave my students, but Im fed up with being exploited; being lied to, and always having to double-check that the school is not engaging me in their unscrupulous practices. For example, they tried to arrange an illegal visa for me, but fortunately, I understand Chinese visa policies well, and was able to prove they were trying to place me in an illegal situation. All school leaders Ive encountered in my three-plus years here have all wrongly assumed that because I speak little Chinese that they can tell me anything and I will believe them. Theres no true respect given to experienced, well-trained foreign teachers here. We are seen only as a means to make more money from students and their parents. They care little or nothing about the students OR the teachers.

In the time I have been in China, Ive had to pay 100% of my medical costs. They give us freezing classrooms, but no financial help when we go to the hospital (usually because of the rotten school food or the complete lack of heat or air-conditioning). And dont be fooled if they tell you there is a school clinic to serve your needs. Hooey! After you arrive at the school and become ill, they will tell you that the school clinic is either not suitable for you, or they will charge you for ALL medications and services the same as if you went to a commercial hospital.

No school (in my experience) will give you ANYTHING without incessant demanding. We are forced to fight for everything that we assume would be provided easily and efficiently (like proper telephone or office internet service). We make this false assumption because usually the contracts say things like in a spirit of mutual cooperation blah, blah, blah Dont believe it! The cooperation they refer to is completely one-sided, i.e. Do whatever we tell you to do, and we will change the agreement on a weekly basis if that suits us, and you must obey

I urge people to be very careful before considering working in mainland China.

I cannot bear the lies, manipulation, and unnecessarily poor conditions any longer.

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