Re: a dissection

Now in the terms of fairness and politeness, may I (see I ask nicely, as I am a gent, contrary to what you may think) dissect your previous post as you have seen fit to do with mine? I will not quote my previous points, but only your responses to them. Thank you.

Finally. This is what having a debate is, addressing the points raised and not cherry picking the parts that suit you.

Except your opinion is wrong and you know nothing about what is involved in attaining a DELTA. Look it up before you make yourself look even more ignorant.

Why is my opinion wrong? I know a few people who have them. Yes it is great if you want to work for a cliquey organisation like the british council, but I do not, hence I do not need one. It is not a requirement for oral english/conversational english teaching...end of story!!! You make yourself more ignorant when you insist people are not real "teachers" unless they possess one, and we are somehow inferior to you, that is how you come across, in actuality.

Firstly, you are wrong because it's jot awarded by TBC, it's by Cambridge university. Secondly, we disgaree when it comes to what should be required to teach 'oral' English. Even if you are only teaching conversation, you must still be able able to answer your students question (if they have them) about why we say something in a certain way (a grammar point) or be able to provide accurate definitions of words for them. A language teaching certification such as a DELTA would help with this. I've never said you have to have one as a requirement, but it would be better to have one than to not. And yes, I do believe 'conversational English' 'teachers' who do not have the same qualifications as I do (English degree, PGCE and a DELTA) are not as effective as I am, because I have more training and experience than they do. So yes, I do think someone who has said in the past they want to teach 16 hours of speaking with minimal lesson planning so they can get to their free time quicker is an inferior teacher to me.

You wouldn't want to work with someone who had a minimum of two years classroom teaching experience before they were eligible to sit a year long course about language teaching, the culmination of which is attaining an MA in language teaching? No, I don't suppose you would want to employ or work with someone like that as they would show you up for the fraud you are within minutes.
Actually, I have no problem with the minimum of two years classroom experience....I think that is a good point you have raised, but then how does a teacher or any worker get experience, unless given a chance?

If a teacher has little experience other than what they have had during the course of their training, I think it is fine to hire them, and support them adequately, so long as their degree is relevant and their ESL training comes from.an.onsite programme, with a minimum of 20 hours observed teaching practice.

However, that is a different thing to what you have quoted from me. In order to sit your DELTA, you must first have competed a CELTA (preferably) or another TEFL from a recognised training centre, then work for a minimum of two years before you can apply to sit your DELTA qualification.

I still think too much education is a bad thing; a real experienced teacher may well have no degree, but his life experiences and ability to relate with people may be better than some smug fool sat in a british council office with MA's in everything under the sun, but they still cannot teach a class of students in China for 45 mins, moan all you like, but it happens. Experience and being personable counts for more really....sorry, but you would still be unemployable in many places, mostly because of your haughty attitude.

I'm not sure I've ever said too much education is a good thing? But if you class having a relevant degree and an ESL teaching certification to be too much education then we have just discovered the root of your problem.

If I have come across as haughty it is because I am getting tired of having to repeat myself so often because you refuse to look at the information provided and continue on like a bull in a china shop smashing your way through the content of each post. I had no problem being hired in China and I have no problem finding work in Europe. What you describe as haughty is in actuality competence in my field.

If you think a 4 week TEFL is better than a DELTA, you really are an imbecile.

If I said it was, I apologize. I still think it is just a money making scam, and that time and money could be better spent improving your teaching by yourself, I don't need some smug goon in a shirt and tie from the british council to tell me whether or not I can manage a class or know about "ice-breakers" and so on. And yes, that is how those like you who have deltas and work at training centres come across, as smug and know it alls. Really you are all nothing more than corporate or government goons, and places like those should be shut down in my opinion, and the owners imprisoned

You are showing your ignorance again. A DELTA is not about ice-breaker games. It is about methodology and teaching practices, including effective classroom management. Read about it before you post about it again as you really don't understand what a DELTA actually is.

Re: a dissection

Dear LG,

Now in the terms of fairness and politeness, may I (see I ask nicely, as I am a gent, contrary to what you may think) dissect your previous post as you have seen fit to do with mine? I will not quote my previous points, but only your responses to them. Thank you.

Except your opinion is wrong and you know nothing about what is involved in attaining a DELTA. Look it up before you make yourself look even more ignorant.

Why is my opinion wrong? I know a few people who have them. Yes it is great if you want to work for a cliquey organisation like the british council, but I do not, hence I do not need one. It is not a requirement for oral english/conversational english teaching...end of story!!! You make yourself more ignorant when you insist people are not real "teachers" unless they possess one, and we are somehow inferior to you, that is how you come across, in actuality.

You wouldn't want to work with someone who had a minimum of two years classroom teaching experience before they were eligible to sit a year long course about language teaching, the culmination of which is attaining an MA in language teaching? No, I don't suppose you would want to employ or work with someone like that as they would show you up for the fraud you are within minutes.

Actually, I have no problem with the minimum of two years classroom experience....I think that is a good point you have raised, but then how does a teacher or any worker get experience, unless given a chance?

I still think too much education is a bad thing; a real experienced teacher may well have no degree, but his life experiences and ability to relate with people may be better than some smug fool sat in a british council office with MA's in everything under the sun, but they still cannot teach a class of students in China for 45 mins, moan all you like, but it happens. Experience and being personable counts for more really....sorry, but you would still be unemployable in many places, mostly because of your haughty attitude.

So yes I think a degree in English is a good enough starting point.

If you think a 4 week TEFL is better than a DELTA, you really are an imbecile.

If I said it was, I apologize. I still think it is just a money making scam, and that time and money could be better spent improving your teaching by yourself, I don't need some smug goon in a shirt and tie from the british council to tell me whether or not I can manage a class or know about "ice-breakers" and so on. And yes, that is how those like you who have deltas and work at training centres come across, as smug and know it alls. Really you are all nothing more than corporate or government goons, and places like those should be shut down in my opinion, and the owners imprisoned for life.

And I agree a degree is absolutely necessary. I have a first in English literature from Durham. What do you have?

One point we agree on; but I'm not going to post up what my degree is in, nor where it is from. Because then it will lead to a pissing contest, of posting up a .jpeg of said document...and that I will not do, nor expect anyone else to do. I have already mentioned this previously; if for privacy other than anything else, I don't want my full name or mobile number or passport details or hometown known on a public board like this. But literature is a noble subject, of that there is no doubt.

As for the rest of your nonsense about my fictional jealousy or my knowledge of Spain, please do continue, it's your own time your wasting on complete fantasy. Perhaps you should write short stories, you clearly have the imagination required for fiction writing.

Time to wrap this up; ok, it was wrong of me to make assumptions about your life or knowledge of Spain and for that I apologize.But your facebook page does mention madrid (again, getting back to privacy!).

Enough for now, as I have a lesson plan to prepare as I am sure you do.

Cheers,
CT

Re Robert de Beaugrande

The DELTA is just a joke, it is nothing more than for GW's without a degree to make themselves feel better and that they can "advance" in a career at a TC imho.

I certainly would not employ or want to work with anyone who had one. Instead, I insist that a Degree in an English related subject and a 4 week TEFL certificate and some teaching practice is good enough. Also, an easy and outgoing personality. [edited]

Re Robert de Beaugrande

I know you want to win, I would as well if I were in your shoes and believe me you have given a few of the fools on this site a damn good kicking. That being said you'll never have the final word. You must know that already because you have a good idea about the kind of people who you are arguing with. They do not posess rational minds and they do not have any interest in entering a debate that would be of benefit to the world of esl. I can see by the way you write that you do want to improve esl and you are passionate about your work as a teacher. Therefore, this website has nothing to offer you except unreasonable and downright nasty attacks on your character.

I was here posting the first time you appeared on this board and had not been back on esltb for well over a year. I'm not sure what made me come back this week but coincidentally you were back too. Don't waste anymore of your time here. You have nothing to prove to these people. Continue to enjoy what you are doing.

Goodbye forever esltb - you'll never change