Spector
- 2015-03-28
Your honest opinion means nothing, let's face the facts, they do have fees, so they are a business.
With all due respect, I could say the same about your opinion, but I will not.It is my right to disagree with you though, however much it annoys the TC lackeys who seem to roost on these boards.In germany, higher education is free,even for foreigners,so would you say education is a business in that country then?
Why are you even asking that person how much money they make? What does that have to do with this discussion?
In hindsight nothing to do with the discussion, but I was just a bit angered at his/her view of education is all about business, these DOS types I just wonder how much do they get paid for signing a contract with the devil?
All schools are a business, parents pay tax which pays for your public schools = fees = business. Richer parents pay for boarding school = business.
Fair enough you are talking about schools. But I do not see EF as a school, not at all.I think boarding schools are horrible places that segregate the sexes and only exist because of the rich.If I had my way I would close them down and turn them into shelters for the homeless, the same way I would force churches to open their doors to let the homeless sleep there.
The person's mind and mine work in a way you'l never be able to understand
Why? Because I refuse to subscribe to your capitalist vision for Education?I maintain that people like you, and the OP, would charge for the rays of the sun or water if you could get away with it.Remember that moss fellow at EF being unqualified and a former security guard....what does a security guard or shift supervisor know about teaching?
because we look at the bigger picture.
Are these the kind of phrases they drill in you at the monthly EF dos meetings. I can almost smell the fires of hell burning through the VDU as I read and respond....
I feel sorry for any student who has a teacher like you, because they can't reach their full potential if their teacher is narrow minded.
And I feel sorry for any students who end up being taught by EF doses who mostly do not have a background in Education or English at all, how can they reach their full potential then?
Seeth ya later, ace.
Dragonized
- 2015-03-28
While I disagree with your views on the training center business model and how it is operated around the world, I do agree with you views on the Spector poster. He was a regular on this forum and has merely changed aliases. He stands for nothing, really. Just wants to go against the grain for no other reason than make himself look good. Recently he has even taken up the rather anti-noble gesture of possibly being an emotional sockpuppet of his chinese wife. He really looks up to one of the GW's that posts regularly on here.
Training center businesses are often run by wealthier individuals who are in it for the money first, and education second. While theoretically employing patient, altruistic teachers will make the model work that is hardly the case in developing countries where the filtering process isn't always well planned out. Due to a lack of experience in terms of actually meeting expats of a diverse background (which can only come by living and interacting in a western country for an extended period of time) many foreigners of less than stellar character have made it up the management rankings in a lot of franchises around China. Even if a franchise makes money, I don't think they are doing "well" in terms of servicing the general masses if the students do not get good teachers. There was a study done which showed how one bad teacher can cost a student as much as 1 million dollars in lifetime earnings. Considering the less than stellar track record of training centers around the world, there are many bright young people who have already become working members of society who are much poorer because of what they went through at training centers.
Your views on government seems to lean towards that of an anarchistic model with the way you see it as a giant business which subsidizes things like school. The thing is, many foreign teachers prefer these types of institutions because of the lax control inflicted on them compared to training centers. While hardly an ideal concept of Education by modern day western standards, they are better in terms of treatment of foreign teachers though not by much. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter what adjective you throw at it be it private or public if it is run by incompetent individuals then it sucks.
If your idealistic society of privatization should come to fruition, you need to develop a plan on attracting competent people to the private sector. It is good for bad public schools to close down. Many of those former teachers were probably better suited to work as street vendors anyway. Right now as it stands though, we are still a long ways from any ideal setting with getting the smart students the knowledge they deserve.
Peter Pan The Wind Up Man
- 2015-03-27
Your honest opinion means nothing, let's face the facts, they do have fees, so they are a business.
Why are you even asking that person how much money they make? What does that have to do with this discussion?
All schools are a business, parents pay tax which pays for your public schools = fees = business. Richer parents pay for boarding school = business.
If a school isn't good what happens? Parents look for alternatives and it closes down due to a lack of students, I have seen it happen to 3 public schools in my home city!
At the end of the day it's about the education the students get at the school, whether it be public or private, the outcome is the same!
Private language centers are not the only education business out there, there are a whole load of them, different enterprises, same model just different environment. They are all operating and doing well, why? Because there is a market for it! If there was no market for it then these places would not be flourishing!
Education comes first no matter where...it's why it's called education business and not business education!
Why would an education business spend millions developing its own courses and getting them CEFR aligned? Why would it continuously give its staff opportunities to develop themselves? Why do so many top universities around the world help contribute towards its materials and do joint ventures with it?
The answer is quite simple, it believes in the students needs and works relentlessly on providing chances for students around the world. The student comes first, the business model allows for the company to stay afloat to give the students the opportunities for their future.
The person's mind and mine work in a way you'l never be able to understand, because we look at the bigger picture. We try to help as many as we can, rather than just coming onto websites to give people abuse. What sort of teacher does that anyway? Teachers are supposed to be patient, motivated people, who want to impart their knowledge on others and do it in a way that shows they care about knowledge. Be open to others opinions, an open mind only allows for a greater knowledge of things in the world. Being so blatantly closed minded means your students will never get the full amount of knowledge from you that they possibly could, meaning you dear Spector don't give your students the best teaching possible!
I feel sorry for any student who has a teacher like you, because they can't reach their full potential if their teacher is narrow minded.
Spector
- 2015-03-26
So I am guessng your university doesn't have tution fees?If it does then it too is also a business, a business is defined by someone paying money to have a service. This is exactly what tution fees are!
Universities if they funded by the government, also need tution fees to get something back for the government, there are also private donations put into universities to make sure they can remain open.
So you can say what you want about a TC, I know what we are, we an an education business. Educating students to have a skill to help them with their future life. You on the other hand don't even realise that you also work for an education business, this makes your business model a little weird. If you don't know what you're working for, how canyou work effectively
Universities should not have fees of any kind imho.Higher education should not be about business at all, I am truly baffled at the way your mind works!?
So you admit you are about business, sorry but the two just cannot meet, how much money did you make, yeah that is the big question, and don't counter with retorts like i love my students, just simply how much do they pay you to sell out your soul?
Happy Worker
- 2015-03-26
So I am guessng your university doesn't have tution fees?
If it does then it too is also a business, a business is defined by someone paying money to have a service. This is exactly what tution fees are!
Universities if they funded by the government, also need tution fees to get something back for the government, there are also private donations put into universities to make sure they can remain open.
So you can say what you want about a TC, I know what we are, we an an education business. Educating students to have a skill to help them with their future life. You on the other hand don't even realise that you also work for an education business, this makes your business model a little weird. If you don't know what you're working for, how canyou work effectively.
: yu2fa3
- 2015-02-10
turnoi tries to stick to english english, so spector could be american.that said he has been guilty of bunging in the odd z instead of s,and not including an a in one of his favourite words as in pae.on balance though turnoi is not spector but he may have been the old poster spectre hahaha
Punisher
- 2015-02-10
You don't know what *sociaslism" is, do you?
And you don't know the difference between socialism and communism either.
[edited]
Punisher
- 2015-02-10
Exactly right. [edited]
They are entirely self-serving, you are right!
Education should not be a business, and certainly not in China!
Spector
- 2015-02-10
Not said poster thank you very much.
And as the T poster has admitted his persecution in said former country on here before, and that he was a refugee, I don't think he will appreciate that remark.
Somebody
- 2015-02-10
It seems Spector (ahem... Turnoi) wants to go back to the good old days of socialism in the USSR.
LOL.
Spector
- 2015-02-10
It is not the TC that you make the effort for, it is the students that attend your classes.
You truly do not care about the chinese people at all, and are no better than a self serving missionary who thinks he knows what is good for the chinese.No students equals no classes. These TC's aggressively recruit students, and yes, I am sure there are even quotas that recruiting staff must meet.When you have staff handing out flyers on streets for these places, then it is a business, nothing more.
Education should not be a business, and certainly not in China!
Beth
- 2015-02-09
So, if I want to be a responsible teacher who cares about his students and who follows the line of "your success (as a student) is also my success (as a teacher)", I should make every effort I can to help them succeed. Rubbish training centres are not worthy of any such efforts
What a contradictory statement! It is not the TC that you make the effort for, it is the students that attend your classes.
[edited] I'm glad you don't teach young learners.