Changchun is really terrible. A lot of FT's go there however because the requirements are low. Many schools do not even require a degree and can still get teacher's a work visa. More than a few can't however and the FT's use tourist visa.

Dalian can be a great place for many people, but you're trying far too hard to defend it from any kind of criticism.

Personally I find it just as nice as Qingdao and the Dalian-rin are a lot less obnoxious and much more laowei savvy...just IMHO. Never once in six years have I been called laowei in Dalian. Not once.

You get offended just because you get called 'laowei?' Do the good and honourable thing by killing yourself. You're just purely and simply laowai. Accept it and embrace it, you poof.

Also I do not go to the cheaper drinking bars, I hardly drink at all, and I have no idea about legal teachers.

No idea about legal teachers? Does your school only employ people illegally then? Also, a lot of those pricier bars aren't always classier, they're often the sleazier ones. You won't get higher status points for drinking there, but if you're lucky you might get a hand job or herpes.

And as I am happily married and not the leacherous type, I know nothing about banging Eastern European types.

You've got one of those wifey translator machines that Silverboy often ridicules people for haven't you?

Your sui generis remark about everywhere has no grounds ... you have not consulted everyone here as neither have I. And last October the Oktoberfest broke all records for attendance and it generated almost 15% of the city's entire tourist revenue for the year...so for a declining business, as you write, not bad at all.

Ask yourself why Paulaner no longer feels a need to run a tent there and most of the imported beer is random piss with a generic German sounding name that has never seen Germany. Amongst my friends in that area, nobody considers it worth going to anymore. And I'd sooner trust them that dodgy official tourist board statistics.

In terms of not many Russians, again this is fallacious. There is a recently opened sub-consulate of the Russian Federation here in Dalian; it has opened a Russian Orthodox Church, open to its citizens. According to PSB figures, Russians do indeed rank third in overall number of foreigners. Again I PERSONALLY know many Japanese and Korean and Taiwanese businessman and families who are hardly alcoholics and sleazebags.

Because you're a boring twat that really goes out at night, that's why. Get yourself to a Japanese snack bar lounge, pay your entrance fee and enjoy the debauchery and better quality table service.

If I had to write about sleazebags in Dalian, and serious alcoholics and druggies, then again I would refer to the officially published PSB figures. Last year, in terms of arrests for possesion and sale of drugs and subsequent prison and deportation, the Brits were number one, followed by the Nigerians, and then the Americans. In terms of drunks and the like, those that I have PERSONALLY seen puking on the streets of Dalian have identified themselves as British, Irish, Australian and the like. So yes, there are sleaze bags here....

I seriously doubt you could provide a link to such figures.

The Dalian subway is overcrowded? At what times have you ridden it? Perhaps during rush hours, during off-peak hours, it is hardly overcrowded...and having visited recently London and New York, I can tell you that the London system smells of piss everywhere and the New York system runs on permanent break-down and overcrowding. Contary to what you write, the system is well maintained, very affordable and accessible. Additionally, unlike London or New York, graffiti on the subway in Dalian is severely punished, as it should it, and last year, 10 foreigners, all of them either Brits or Northern Irish, were arrested and deported for either urinating on the subway or defacing subway property. Again public figures from the PSB published in all the local newspapers.

I seriously doubt that you could quote those. And grafitti on subways simply isn't really a thing in China, the graffiti culture is not as developed as in Western countries and therefore doesn't really happen. Not to mention that you're mentioning something that few people would ever give a toss about.

Again, in your last comments, you refer sui generis to everyone feels. That is hardly correct unless you have consulted everyone. From what I hear, many are pleased with what Bo Xilia accomplished but many are also appalled at the debt levels he created for the city. He was more viewed as an Elmer Gantry, Donald Trump kind of a trickster than anything else.

Regardless of those viewpoints, the fact remains: Dalian was knocking on the tier 1 door, but has stayed still, if not dropped back in recent times.

As I said, Dalian is about no. 5 on the list of places most FTs in China would like to work. It is pleasant, it is liveable, the cost of things are quite proportionate to ones salary, etc.

Sounds like a China Daily article from ten years ago. Nobody with sense reads such dribble. They have their own ways of researching and coming to their own conclusions. Not to mention that such tables normally consider life from the viewpoints of idiots that speak very little Chinese, want everything to be Western etc.

They just need to pay attention as to whether or not their perspective school is in Dalian proper or in the hinterlands of Dalian, which is another story.

That you are actually correct about.

And I forgot to mention that Dalian is also one of the regional hubs for the L and M trains...long before they reached Qingdao, Shenyang, and Harbin, they had reached Dalian. All of Northern China, including far-away Shanghai, is within striking distance for a weekend trip. Additionally, Guangzhou and Hong Kong are accessible for a four-day weekend.

And the international flights in-and-out of Dalian airport have been increasing considerably. Lufthansa recently applied for permission to fly a Dalian Frankfurt route.

And Korean Air and all the airlines of Taiwan fly in and out, plus Aeroflot seasonally, and all the major Chinese carriers.

It's a shame that nearly every other flight gets delayed. Many friends in the south of Liaoning province are forced to get trains from Beijing regularly because the connecting flight to Dalian gets delayed by several hours and they've got to get to work the next day. The high speed trains are fantastic, but being stuck on the end of the Liaodong peninsula, it's not the most convenient of locations at all.

Sounds like a bit of a GW ( Grovelling Weasel ) post to me. I've also lived in Changchun and Dalian before. Strange that you never mentioned any drawbacks to the place.

Generally I found Dongbei people to be rude and obnoxious. Having, said that, they are amateurs in comparison to Guangxi people and also Hubei people when it comes to being racist, arrogant and ignorant snobs.

Girls in Dongbei, especially in Dalian and Shenyang certainly know how to turn on the charm as far as attracting Western men goes. Their fake facade crumbles quite quickly however. I knew a wealthy Australian guy who lived in Wuhan who would spend his days off in Shenyang. He went up there just for the hookers. He would fly out on Thursday night and come back on Monday afternoon. He went long time with one girl he really liked.

Anyway, you said you are married. You did not say if your spouse in Chinese or not. In the case that she is Chinese you certainly have my sympathy, but you were foolish to marry one of them.

Let's dissect that Scott...

I've made many a trip to Dalian and nearby cities in the past and can say that you're right about the weather. It's actually a popular tourist destination in summer for those hoping to escape really warm places down South. However, it's nowhere near as nice as Qingdao. The sun tends to set early due to China's insistence upon a singular time zone for the whole country; just like in Shanghai.

This is another bit of crock about a dearth of foreigners in Dalian. Salaries for foreign teachers in Dalian are actually on the low side because like Hainan there is a very net OVERSUPPLY of foreign teachers.

There's an oversupply of underqualified or not so legal teachers. Go to the cheaper bars and drinking places and you'll see Serbian, Ukrainians and Americans/Canadians on 10 year tourist visas all drinking and chatting together. This works out great for some of us as there's an increased selection of Eastern European chicks to bang, but as a legitimate teacher, it probably means you're getting screwed because dodgy schools can opt for those types of teachers that will take lower pay or not be so bothered about not getting the correct visa.

I nearly died when I read that there is nothing to do ....Dalian is a little Beijing ... it is all here just in reduced numbers. The expat communities are very large. Because of Siemens and Mercedes Benz and

Volkswagen there is a huge German expat community, followed by a large Russian and then Korean community.

Oktoberfest, the German autumn drinking bing, is a huge event in Dalian. And Dalian makes some of the best beer in China.

Dalian Dry is a decent Chinese beer but the brewer has been bought, sold and generally just passed around like a bitch in the past years, quality is decreasing every year that I visit. But Dalian does not have a good reputation amongst Chinese people for good beer;even though there's an up and coming craft brewing scene. Everyone based there considers the beer festival to be an awful non-event and attendance numbers are apparently falling.

Yes, there's expat communities but they're full of alcoholics and sleazebags; I know as I've sold products to some of them. The Japanese and Korean places are cool, but apart from students, you'll see only a few Russians these days.

Dalian is a little Beijing? No, it's just Dalian; it actually has many a thing going for it that Beijing doesn't have.

The city of Dalian has got a great underground / subway system for a city its size. It has four very functional lines that will take you anywhere.

Even with recent improvements, it is nowhere near as good as other cities. It is often far more overcrowded and has less seating.

Another writer wrote correctly that Ealing College is 20 kms outside of the city. This is indeed true. Nearly 10 years ago the decision was taken to relocate all of the university campuses outside of the city.

This decision caused a major riot but eventually all towed the line. So teaching at Dalian Ealing College of any of the truly major universities is like teaching at the North Pole and saying that you live in Montreal. But hey, it is a question that you have asked beforehand.

That's happening in every major Chinese city; officials have got to get those urban land kickbacks, lol.

This is the most prosperous and most forward-looking city in an another antiquated province.

Maybe, but everyone feels that Dalian stayed frozen in time after Bo Xilai left.